Thoughts on an awning

[markkee]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

I like the canopy in bag...but we pack way too much stuff. I think I will attempt to make the $100 awning posted on the Expedition Portal that you(Happy Joe) shared in one of your replies.

[MacGyver]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

Nope - wouldn't want it on the roof of my vehicle, but I LOVE that tent! Does the company make a ground version?

[markkee]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

Nope - wouldn't want it on the roof of my vehicle, but I LOVE that tent! Does the company make a ground version?

Most of the ARB tents are for platforms.

This has been a lively discussion on awnings. I tend to agree with Mac on not wanting all the attachments on my roof. However, once I roll into camp I envy the folks that have cool awnings and roof top tents. It's always fun to dream ideas to make camping comfortable.

ARB sells this awning for $179 on eBay:

[MacGyver]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

Most of the ARB tents are for platforms.

Somehow I didn't catch that the tent was made by ARB. Just checked out their site and that tent is beaucoup bucks! Way beyond my wallet, anyway.

It's always fun to dream ideas to make camping comfortable.

Damn shame about the ARB price. I'm not adverse to putting tents on platforms of my own

[Happy Joe]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

I like the canopy in bag...but we pack way too much stuff. I think I will attempt to make the $100 awning posted on the Expedition Portal that you(Happy Joe) shared in one of your replies.

A common failing; I think most of us do...

BTW, expedition portal hides many of their images until you login...

Somehow I didn't catch that the tent was made by ARB. Just checked out their site and that tent is beaucoup bucks! Way beyond my wallet, anyway.
Damn shame about the ARB price. I'm not adverse to putting tents on platforms of my own

Yup! ARB stuff is a bit spendy; I have yet to be disappointed at least in their mechanical stuff (lockers, snorkels, bullbars etc.)...a case of getting what you pay for, IMO.

...Quite the tent collection you seem to have MacG...

Enjoy!

[a65hoosier]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

Thank you. That is a plain old rectangle tarp. The dip in front might be what makes it appear to be a catenary cut. I guess it's because I found a way to hang straight cut tarps that I never understood the need for a cat cut. They're insanely priced for one thing and, at least to me, don't offer quite as much protection.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with my friend MacGyver. I'm a fan of cat cuts....as he surely knows. I like em!!! So I'm gonna make my argument for cat cut tarps-lol.

I also used/went with square rectangle tarps for quite a while (along with a screenhouse, etc.) in an attempt to have some dry and/or shaded space just outside the tent in the event of rain. Clumsy set-up, for me, especially if the site lacked appropriate tree tie offs. A large rectangle tarp was a chore to put up solo and didn't exactly go up fast-worse so in a wind. Depending on the site, I'd need four poles (perhaps one + more minimum depending on set-up) or have to create some sort of ridgeline using cord and poles to hang it properly. It was loud during heavy rain storms and noisily flapped in the wind if you didn't get them tight. They definitely can be pitched tight...and I always managed to do so after some earned practice/experience, but over time, I found they weren't for me.

A catenary cut tarp like my Noah (and other wing style tarps) allows me to easily pitch it consistently tight regardless of campsite conditions using just two 10 foot adjustable poles and a minimum of 6 lines (I'll add more lines if conditions warrant and usually bring a 3rd shorter adjustable pole to maximize versatility in pitch configurations-sometimes I use it, sometimes not). No trees needed. One key I've found: I use pre-measured and pre-tied and hanked guy out lines that easily and quickly loop and/or carabiner clip to the tarp where needed and/or as necessary. This always gives me a tight wind and rain shedding pitch, very very quickly (important when setting up camp before the rain hits or even to have fast shade cause it's brutally sunny/hot). Because my equipment is "pre-set" before I arrive at camp (mainly those lines), it's a breeze to set-up solo. Position, stake out lines, raise lines/pole/tarp on one corner, walk the tarp across to the other corner and do the same raising of lines/pole/tarp there, clip on guy out lines for the wings, and then do final adjustment tension on all lines. That's it-5 minutes max. It makes for a good tent awning now that I have figured out the proper positioning to get the needed overlap. I think it is quieter in a heavy rain. Bonus: Takes up no real space transporting, packs down small and fast.

Yes, you'll lose some square foot coverage underneath due to the cat cut's design, but even subtracting a foot off my square 16 foot Noah to allow for the cut still gives me at least 225 square feet of protection underneath, plenty for my purposes. Easy adjustability for that slightly reduced coverage: If I need shade in the morning...or shade in the evening, I can lift/lower a wing for protection, adjust height on either main corner pole, and/or clip on additional guy outs if the wind/weather starts really blowing. And maintain a tight pitch.

As far as price, I bought my Noah 16 on sale for $52 (actually less than I paid for the 12 footer). Yea, pricier than a polyethylene tarp, but the quality is better: UV resistant polyester fabric. Reinforced grommet attachment points and multiple reinforced nylon loop tie offs along the edges and across the tarp surface for additional set-up styles or "batten down the hatches" clip-off points. I've never had a grommet pop through problem or any other failures/quality issues. It's been real good, year round gear for me the past few years (works well and maintains flexibility when temps drop below freezing). Kelty now makes a Noah 20...which would be huge. It has caught my eye....lol.

I think the overall thing I take away from threads like these is the importance of having some sort of rain/sun protected area when camping....regardless of personal method/gear used (tarps, screenhouses, awnings, etc.). Find something that works for you and your camping style. I still see so many tent campers that have absolutely no protection what so ever. They swelter in the sun...and a light rain causes them to be chased into their tents, even in the middle of the day. Sigh...so unnecessary.

Noah 16, 2 10 foot poles. Extra lines clipped for expected evening thunderstorms:

[MacGyver]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

OK Hoosier... I concede. Very valid points. LOL
I actually do have the Noah 16 on my watch lists on a couple of sites. And I guess I'll have to be on the lookout for the 20 now. Not sure what I'm going to do with it once I get it, but buying camping gear is an illness I can't seem to shake. Guess I'll make a bunch of people happy at a yard sale come the day tent camping gets to be too difficult and I move into a trailer.

[a65hoosier]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

OK Hoosier... I concede. Very valid points. LOL
I actually do have the Noah 16 on my watch lists on a couple of sites. And I guess I'll have to be on the lookout for the 20 now. Not sure what I'm going to do with it once I get it, but buying camping gear is an illness I can't seem to shake. Guess I'll make a bunch of people happy at a yard sale come the day tent camping gets to be too difficult and I move into a trailer.

No need for a concede or a win or lose on this one, just different options.

I've really been on a gear reduction kick the past few years slowly trying to simplify everything and reduce the weight and size of the stuff I bring: gear, cooking/sleeping/seating, etc. I figure if I bring x00 lbs of gear...even if I have the storage/rig to bring it...I still gotta load/unload to camp and then load/unload that x00 lbs of gear coming home. Like backpacking, I'm conscious of every pound I put in the suv and have been trying to minimize the size/weight of everything without giving up comfort/function/durability. It's still a challenge to prevent gear "creep" when I pack.

Don't you know it on the gear addiction!!! Once you have the basics and enough stuff...then you can look for clearance/sales/etc to "give certain pieces of gear a try". lol. Do I need 6 tents? Yes---different tools for different styles/conditions (I camp year round) lololol. My reduction kick has already allowed me to "upgrade" quite a bit of gear. I'm kinda like you...tent camp until I can't....and then I'll go from there.

NOTE: Kelty upgraded/changed the Noah series this past year (they're green with lime trim, my older model is bronze with orange trim). They eliminated the grommets at the corner and replaced them with rings (I'd need washers for my poles as I think they might go thru the ring). Added pockets underneath for guy line storage and doubled the waterproof coating rating. Sounds a bit beefier.

[a65hoosier]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

I actually do have the Noah 16 on my watch lists on a couple of sites. And I guess I'll have to be on the lookout for the 20 now.

Oh fyi...REI makes a Noah clone up to the 16 footer I think. Still uses grommets instead of rings. Might be a fun place for dividend $ or a % off sale down the line.

[James.]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

Wait......so there isn't going to be a rumble?

[MacGyver]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

Wait......so there isn't going to be a rumble?

Yeah - We're meeting Ohio for a camping trip and gonna have it out over the last beer in the cooler. Winner gets all the tarps.

[markkee]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

You guys are killing me on this TARP thing. Just when I think I am getting a grasp on this, you throw in the Noah TARP!

So let's get this straight-2 poles and 6 guy lines and maybe I am good to go? I could 3 of these for the price of a van awning.

The REI tarp is symmetrical. Is the Noah tarp symmetrical? What is CAT?

• No-sag design for a taut pitch
• Square, symmetrical cut for maximum coverage and pitch versatility
• Multiple webbing loop lash points along the edges provide easy setup
• Main corner grommets with double layer reinforcement provide a strong, stable pitch
• Includes 6 reflective guylines for nighttime visibility
• 75D polyester won't stretch when wet
• REI adjustable tarp poles sold separately.
• 6 stakes included

[MacGyver]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

What is CAT?

Short for catenary cut or catenary curve. A fairly good explanation here:

http://sectionhiker.com/what-is-the-...-shaped-tarps/

[a65hoosier]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

You guys are killing me on this TARP thing. Just when I think I am getting a grasp on this, you throw in the Noah TARP!

So let's get this straight-2 poles and 6 guy lines and maybe I am good to go? I could 3 of these for the price of a van awning.

The REI tarp is symmetrical. Is the Noah tarp symmetrical? What is CAT?

• No-sag design for a taut pitch
• Square, symmetrical cut for maximum coverage and pitch versatility
• Multiple webbing loop lash points along the edges provide easy setup
• Main corner grommets with double layer reinforcement provide a strong, stable pitch
• Includes 6 reflective guylines for nighttime visibility
• 75D polyester won't stretch when wet
• REI adjustable tarp poles sold separately.
• 6 stakes included

markkee - Remember that the cost of either the Noah or the REI cloned version of the Noah does NOT include the cost of the adjustable poles. Not sure how much the ARB awning is...but my Noah 16 (bought on sale) plus 2 poles brought the cost to around $100 total. I don't count cordage since I seem to have plenty laying around.

I use 10 foot adjustable steel poles from Cabelas (less than $20 each) rather than fancy REI or MSR tarp poles. I've used mine now for 4 years with no problems. Cabelas also carrys shorter size poles. Typically, I will set the tarp up with 2 poles and the minimum 6 guy lines needed. I DO however, bring an extra shorter adjustable pole (8 footer) that I can use to lift one of the tarp wings up to provide additional headroom under the tarp. I seldom lift a corner using the full 8 foot length pole length....generally 4-5 foot is plenty. Depending on the weather (rain/wind expected), then I generally just skip the 3rd pole on a wing and just do the normal 2 poles at the corners and guy out the wings. 6 guy lines are the minimum I use (depends on expected weather). I always have additional pre-tied/measured lines that I can easily clip onto the tarp should it be necessary to really lock it to the ground.

And yes, the Noah and the REI clone are symmetrical (essentially squares, with the cat cut running down each side of the square). I usually place my main poles in the corner grommets that align with the tarp seam, which runs from one corner to the other (the wings have the Kelty/REI logo on them, which makes it easy to designate those as "wings" when setting it up). It is easier to see this than describe it. lol

[Happy Joe]

Re: Thoughts on an awning

... and so the debates go on; Chevy/Ford, Cat cut/rectangular tarp, awning/tarp...
some thoughts;
Rectangular tarps are, the oldest, almost certainly the cheapest & simplest to visualize, but tend to flap in the wind and or sag/belly/act as rain catchments; thus needing relatively careful pitching and/or bungie tensioning. They have a large number of pretty obvious applications and tent /shelter variations.

Cat cut (a sub set of) tarps; Are a way to minimize tarp flap and rain catchment; to an extent they trade versatility for this, IMO. They have a neat look, but often like to have 2 ends on tall poles, when erected well there is little to no tarp flap in the wind and the rain typically skates right off (natural ridgeline)... they can be a bit "odd" to try to fit into a rectangular thought/plan; i.e to get to fit well with a rectangular tent (they seem to fit quite well with dome tents though). Some folks seen to think they limit the pitching choices (not real applicable to "traditional" tarp tent configurations to or tentless camping in extreme conditions).... small cat cut tarps work well over a hammock.
I don't think I have ever seen a really good screen or wall option; but then, I have not looked hard.

Awnings are the most expensive option and need a substantial support for one edge but well designed vehicle/trailer attached awnings are very quick and easy for one person to deploy; the farther one gets away from the commercial product the more complex the set up typically is (engineering counts a lot here). When properly designed there is little wind flap and little rain catchment.
I have seen, product specific, screen and wall options.
Versions are available without legs or guy lines (risky in windy conditions, IMO).

Self supporting fast/quick setup, vertical leg, canopies are a fair half step between tarps and awnings, both in cost and (with accessories) application, not configuration versatility. They are typically moderately heavy (not for backpacking), usually somewhat robust, and not minimal volume when packed. They set up and breakdown easily and quickly; best with at least 2 people (the best single person set up technique that I have found is to tie one leg to a tree then pick up and deploy the diagonal leg).
The typically square/rectangular footprint is easy to visualize in for site planning. They are not shape shifters; you get one choice other than height.
The height is easily variable (lower them for windy conditions and raise them for taller friends). The vertical leg versions can be equipped with walls and or screens. They also fit well with other straight leg canopies and many tents (for minimal rain/snow gap).... our group camping social area/shelters are usually multiple straight leg canopies often with walls lighting and heaters.
The thin material of many of the walls is noisy in the wind (kept me awake). The tops are usually robust, however.

All of the above should be properly guyed (IMO) and kept far enough away from fires to prevent spark holes.

Enjoy!