CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

[JohnJohn]

I recently upgraded the forum to the 4.3.2 version of vBulletin. Along with that upgrade I added a few more features that you can read about here.

http://www.campingforums.com/forum/s...e-new-features

Prior to that upgrade there was some serious discussion about the way Moderation and new member registration works. I took that to heart. This site HAS taken a back seat in my long list of projects, but no longer. That thread was an eye opening experience in a way. Here is what I've decided and here is what I am thinking.

Decisions -

New members must verify their email address prior to finishing site registration.
1) This will verify that the VERY IMPORTANT registration email actually gets to the new member. A fair amount of the time dedicated to new members is dealing with them typing their email address wrong and wondering why they never received the registration email.

2) Some people actually think they can make up and email address and register. While I understand few want to give their email address out these days, it's needed. It helps to notify you when threads are updated or someone replies to your question our post. It keeps people active.

Advertising
1) Necessary Evil - Server space, URLs and time

2) Amazon Links - Recently Amazon as re-opened their affiliate program to those of us living in Colorado. The links you see at the top of the forum "Outdoor Gear" & RV Gear" in the Navigation bar are links to Amazon. The site can make 3-8% on your purchases. If you shop Amazon frequently please pop over here first, and click one of the links and buy your items after clicking through. Your purchases do not have to be related to the topics in those links.

Ideas -

- recruit moderators. Set days as to when an admin or moderator is on and when they are off site. Admin and moderators commit to checking moderation que least 2 times day. Moderators will also be added as connections to our Facebook page. Sometimes when new members have trouble they head over there

- Blog w/ Product Reviews (Free Products shipped to myself and other Moderators review)

- Paid Sponsors and Advertisers

- T-shirts

- Stickers

- Weekly giveaways

[CMPR1966]

Re: CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

Thank you for taking a closer look at the current state of this site. I have been around as a guest for far longer them a member, I still find I just pop on to check on things a few times a day without signing in (it easier since I am at work and get signed off anyway because I have to often walk away) I appreciate what you provide, and would love to see more activity and great discussion.

[toedtoes]

Re: CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

Decisions - I see no problem with the verified email. As a user, I have no issue providing a real email IF in order to post on a forum. I am not fond of websites that require a person to register/provide valid email just to see what the website offers.

Advertising is what it is. No opinion either way as that is a financial decision made by the forum owner and not really a user thing (as I use an adblock with Firefox, I don't get hampered by ads anyway ).

Ideas - can you clarify "moderators"? Do you mean people who will "filter new members" or do you mean actual moderation? As that has been an issue in the past, I think it can be an important difference.

Blog for product reviews and paid sponsors - I think it should be either/or not both. If you just accept paid sponsors, then the public sees that as simply a monetary choice (they were willing to pay the fee, they are sponsors). If you just make reviews, then the public sees that as a camping website commenting on camping gear. If you have paid sponsors AND make reviews, then public ends up questioning your motives (did you give that product 5 stars because it's really quality or because they're paying you money). For what it's worth, I ABSOLUTELY HATE those Amazon reviews "I received the product free/at a discount in exchange for my honest review" - yeah right, I believe you...

T-shirts, stickers, giveaways - I'm not a big one for these things. Just never cared to see money spent on stuff I'll just throw away. From what I've seen, I'm in the minority on this though, so you can toss my opinion on this out the window... :tussor:

[JohnJohn]

Re: CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

@toedtoes

Moderators: "issue in the past" as in issues with moderators doing too much moderation or not enough?

Blog would be where the reviews are posted, and hopefully posted by forum members or moderators deemed as content providers. I would like to market the site to manufactures that would like to sell gear, they ship gear to a content provider for a review. Those persons may be able to keep the item, or may not. Who knows. It could even be a review of something a content provider bought on their own. Your fellow members would be doing the reviews. So no better our worse options than you get now.

Paid Sponsors are usually people with product that may not need reviewing, but is established and might just want some exposure. Right now an ad subscription only costs $99 a year here so it's pretty cheap. We have a pet supply company and some other products do that.

Stuff: in 20 years almost everything we own will be trash, but made not a CampingForums t-shirt...it might be a garage rag.

[toedtoes]

Re: CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

On the other thread, you indicated that you had problems with prior moderators because they moderated rather than filter new users. From personal experience, I find that you prefer to let the forum run unmoderated (not a dig, just an observation) - so this all begs the question as to whether your idea is to create true moderators that are going to address inappropriateness of posts (beyond unapproved advertising, etc.), or to simply extend the "filtering of new users" to a group of people on a scheduled basis and leave the forum "unmoderated" as it has been.

Don't see anything that would change my opinion of the blog/paid sponsors idea. But, that wouldn't change my participation in the forum itself, I just wouldn't bother with the reviews. Same with the "stuff".

[JohnJohn]

Re: CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

On the other thread, you indicated that you had problems with prior moderators because they moderated rather than filter new users. From personal experience, I find that you prefer to let the forum run unmoderated (not a dig, just an observation) - so this all begs the question as to whether your idea is to create true moderators that are going to address inappropriateness of posts (beyond unapproved advertising, etc.), or to simply extend the "filtering of new users" to a group of people on a scheduled basis and leave the forum "unmoderated" as it has been.

Don't see anything that would change my opinion of the blog/paid sponsors idea. But, that wouldn't change my participation in the forum itself, I just wouldn't bother with the reviews. Same with the "stuff".

I define moderation as moderating posts from people who are not new, like local police keeping the peace. Using that same analogy, new member moderation is basically the border patrol. We need boarder patrol, but do we need local police? However in the system they are all called police. Therefore if we institute border patrol agents they can and WILL most likely dive into being local police. The power in the system is the same. Make sense?

[toedtoes]

Re: CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

Why not speak plainly?

Do YOU (as owner of the site) want your moderators to monitor and police posts? Or do YOU want them to simply filter new users? It really is your choice.

Whether the system will allow them to do more is moot. The question is will YOU give them the authority to police or not. If you do not want them policing, then be clear about it up front - to them AND to the forum members in general. Make it part of the rules of the forum for all to see. If they start overstepping their authority, then you have "justification" to remove them from office. If you aren't clear up front what their authority is ("if we institute border patrol agents they can and will most likely dive into being local police" is not a clear statement of what you are authorizing them to do), then it makes it really hard to call them on overstepping their authority. If they are to be "border patrol" only, then make that clear from the start and if they overstep they are removed from office. I think most folks can accept and adhere to that.

[JohnJohn]

Re: CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

What the heck? I'm feel I'm speaking pretty plainly. I used analogies so that people reading this can understand how the software works.

Do we need local police or just border patrol? That's what I'm asking.

[NYCgrrl]

Re: CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

I define moderation as moderating posts from people who are not new, like local police keeping the peace. Using that same analogy, new member moderation is basically the border patrol. We need boarder patrol, but do we need local police? However in the system they are all called police. Therefore if we institute border patrol agents they can and WILL most likely dive into being local police. The power in the system is the same. Make sense?

Does it make sense? Only to a finite point to my way of thinking.

I prefer a dialogue over a discussion and a discussion over a debate.
Laissez-faire works well for increasing an economic base up to a point but does little for social interaction.

By your philosophical define we are guinea pigs in a social experiment.
Interesting.
Ish ish.

[NYCgrrl]

Re: CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

What the heck? I'm feel I'm speaking pretty plainly. I used analogies so that people reading this can understand how the software works.

Do we need local police or just border patrol? That's what I'm asking.

Local police works for me.
Speaking plainly.

[JohnJohn]

Re: CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

This is not a philosophical.

The question I think is very simple. Do we need to have moderators stepping beyond the area of new member moderation? Is there a problem with members not keeping the peace after that 5 post threshold? I am at a loss for how to explain this any simpler.

The software that runs the forum lists someone as a moderator, they then have the power to police day to day posts by everyone, new AND old. I can of course give any new moderators verbal direction in limiting their moderations to those with under 5 posts, if that's all we need. However if we need them to step beyond that and "keep the peace", speak up. Answering questions with questions is just a giant circle jerk. I get that it's MY forum and I can do what I want, BUT I:M ASKING YOU.

[toedtoes]

Re: CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

From your prior posts, this was not clear. It sounded as if you were stating that because the system would allow "moderators" to do more, then they WOULD do more - whether it was authorized or not. That's what I was questioning - because I believe that if you make it clear what their function is, "moderators" would do that and no more.

But, since you are asking "should they filter new users only or should they moderate threads?", I vote for moderation. I don't think it has to be rigid moderating, but if someone repeatedly insults other posters, then there should be some action taken.

Now, whether that is done by the group of "moderators" or by you only as the owner, well I'll leave that decision up to you. Do you want to deal with such issues or do you want to defer them to others? Do you want to instead deal with potential "moderator issues" that you spoke of on the other thread?

[JohnJohn]

Re: CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

From your prior posts, this was not clear. It sounded as if you were stating that because the system would allow "moderators" to do more, then they WOULD do more - whether it was authorized or not. That's what I was questioning - because I believe that if you make it clear what their function is, "moderators" would do that and no more.

But, since you are asking "should they filter new users only or should they moderate threads?", I vote for moderation. I don't think it has to be rigid moderating, but if someone repeatedly insults other posters, then there should be some action taken.

Now, whether that is done by the group of "moderators" or by you only as the owner, well I'll leave that decision up to you. Do you want to deal with such issues or do you want to defer them to others? Do you want to instead deal with potential "moderator issues" that you spoke of on the other thread?

Thanks, I see your answer in there somewhere.

[Happy Joe]

Re: CampingForums: Decisions and Ideas - Constructive Feedback Needed

Personally I like the way this forum is moderated, although it looks like significant expansion is planned/hoped for and thus significant "policing" may be occasionally necessary.
The worst forums have no policing and anarchy with profane language rules (I normally won't stay long at these. some forums are over moderated with some users trying to control opinion through the complaint procedures. When it becomes evident that the moderators are easily or being manipulated I usually bow out (freedom of opinion is something I insist upon).

I seen nothing wrong with reviews of supplied merchandise... I only believe a fraction of what I see in reviews, so I seek them from multiple sources.
Reviewed items can be used for giveaways although I normally do not participate in these.

T-shirts stickers etc. are not something I personally want but I have no objection to them.

Paid sponsors and advertisers can be a good thing.
Advertising; I am torn about as I have gotten malware from high jacked (at least I hope it was not the advertiser's intent) advertising. Hopefully there is some sort of scan that can be regularly/automatically done to minimize this sort of impact.

Thanks for the info about the Amazon links I will try to remember to use them.

Enjoy!