Tent heater BTU

[howl]

Howdy! I'm looking at buying a heater for a 10x10 nylon tent. Has anyone any thoughts on how many BTUs would be necessary to warm such a tent up to shirt sleeve temp.s in winter?

[MacGyver]

Re: Tent heater BTU

It's virtually impossible to safely get a nylon tent that warm in winter - especially if it's a dome and/or if it has any mesh at all. I say safely because, among other things, there are clearances involved when running a heater, and the higher the BTUs, the further away you and any combustibles have to be. I mean, you could get a 30 or 50,000 BTU catalytic heater, but by then you have no place to sit in the tent to avoid getting burnt AND you'd be melting the roof of the tent. I base all of this on past experiences with heaters and nylon tents, last year being a perfect example. I had an Alps Meramac 4 out in mid 40°F weather and a Big Buddy heater. 4, 9 and 18,000 BTU. It needs a minimum 3 feet of clearance overhead, so I already had to have it pretty much in the middle of the tent to avoid the sloping walls. Set on 9K, it was already threatening to set my bedding on fire and all the heat was escaping out the top of the tent. Wind was another big factor. You can't safely run a heater without ventilation. In a tent, that means opening windows and/or keeping the mesh open. Any kind of wind at all just comes through the tent, knocking out whatever heat you manage to trap. On top of all that, nylon itself isn't a good insulator against radiant heat. That's why they quickly heat up in Summer sun. The best I can see you coming up with is being able to sit directly in front of the heater, just far enough away to keep from getting burnt, and maybe wearing a sweatshirt or something along that level of clothing.

Having said all of that, I'd more than welcome someone else chiming in to tell me how wrong I am. Having played around for 40+ years with a zillion ways to "rough it smoothly", I'm still open to learning new tricks. I gave up trying to get warm in my nylon tents and went to canvas. THAT works like a charm. Canvas is a great insulator against cold and heat. I once had my 10 x 10 Kodiak at 72°F in subzero weather with all four windows unzipped about a foot down for ventilation. But, like I said, maybe someone knows something I don't and can teach me something.

[Happy Joe]

Re: Tent heater BTU

...Tried many heaters... I'm still looking for one that works without significant downsides/drawbacks.
I use a 9x9 dome mostly for shorter trips like weekenders, and a 10x10 (really closer to 9.5x9.5) Stand-up canopy tent for longer trips.
Ventilation is a BIG issue; I go for a minimum of 16 square inches each one vent high and one vent low; DO YOUR RESEARCH and find/calculate the proper ventilation for your application (most dome tents have really poor (too much) ventilation to be able to heat them effectively, IMO.
Clearance is another issue that is often problematic.
How much heater you "need" is often subjective and depends in part on how cold your winter is.

The big buddy (~18,000 BTU) advantage is portability BUT they use excessive amounts of fuel (since there is no thermostat).... also roughly 1/3 do not want to work at altitude,9,000+ feet. due to the low oxygen sensor/pilot light.
Tank top radiant heaters running up beyond 30,000 BTU use too much fuel like the buddy heaters (no thermostat and most do not have low oxygen sensor).
Blue Flame vent-less heaters normally have low oxygen sensor/pilot lights (with their altitude issues) but can be gotten with thermostats for better fuel usage however they can emit huge amounts of moisture (because they are unvented) and are not particularly portable (meant for wall mounting in a structure). A problem that I encountered trying to camp wit them is that the thermostat is as high or higher than the cot so they warm the top of the tent while you freeze below the warm air.

What I do when I absolutely have to camp in the cold is bring a GOOD bag and use a small heater to pre-warm the tent before I enter/leave the sleeping bag.

I have seen some interesting looking heaters, on line (Propex) that are meant to be completely outside the vehicle and to act as mini warm air furnaces... https://www.propexheatsource.com/
I have also heard that there are cheap chinese knock offs... Might make a good project for the DIY fabricator.

We have successfully heated canopies with walls as winter party areas with a couple of big buddy heaters running from 20 pound tanks.. (~9500 feet altitude after dark with a couple of feet of snow on the ground... too well lubricated to guess at the temperature but the snow crunched so it was likely below freezing).

So far; I don't see a really good, quick and easy generally applicable tent heating solution.

BTW be aware that oxygen consuming devices in sealed/improperly ventilated, tents or enclosures can kill you, and the people with you...

Hope it helps...

Enjoy!

[a65hoosier]

Re: Tent heater BTU

Ahhh come on Mac, it's not virtually impossible to get a nylon/poly tent warm in the winter. :mdr: Ya just got to have the right nylon/poly tent for the conditions you expect. Although....I agree with you that most nylon/poly tents are designed for the summer and spring/fall shoulder seasons (in my area). Open mesh is not good for the cold winter winds. howl-----I am not sure what BTU heater would be necessary for your 10x10 tent...or if would even heat the tent depending on the mesh amount----but the comments from Mac and HappyJoe are valid and something to think about.

However....winter camping and heating a nylon/poly tent can be done....and quite comfortably (depending on your tolerances and equipment). I stepped up last year and purchased the Cabelas Alaskan Guide Instinct 8P (poly/nylon). True full double wall tent with a full fly and thick fabrics and excellent water resistance ratings - mfg tested to 55mph winds. For cold weather, every one of the 5 interior mesh panels/vents (3 roof, 2 doors) can be left open or fully zipped shut depending on ventilation needs. 12'3" x 11.1", 6'8" internal height. 36 pounds total and it takes up relatively very little space in the SUV. The vestibule is huge...a benefit for emergency cooking should outside weather make stove usage difficult. If I have to hole up in the tent...the stove in the vestibule is used to reheat a meal or boil water...I'm not chef style cooking in it.

I heat this tent with a regular Mr Buddy heater (not the Big Buddy). The coldest temps I've only had it down so far is the mid 20's with a good wind....but with the Buddy on, I sat around inside in a pair of sweats and a t-shirt...with both door mesh panels open and a couple of the roof panels partially unzipped. No problem with heater clearances and plenty of room for 2 large pads, a table, 2 chairs etc. This tent is a game changer compared to my smaller winter 4P tent we had used in the past...there was really no room to put a buddy heater in safely due to the smaller size....so we learned to stay warm without a heater. I still don't run the Buddy at night as I prefer to sleep (for safety sake) using warm/dry bed clothing, a down bag, and a quality pad with an R value of 5+. But if I am up...the heater goes on.

[howl]

Re: Tent heater BTU

Thanks for the insights. I'm looking at the nu-way propane stoves. The models go from 9000 to 28000 btu. The reason for wanting a flue is wanting dry heat. Two adults and two kids make plenty of moist air. And we wind up in the clouds in the mountains sometimes. Everything gets damp.

It looks like the challenge will be getting the heat into the air and not just going up the flue. And doing so compactly enough to not be a hazard.

[MacGyver]

Re: Tent heater BTU

Deleted

[Happy Joe]

Re: Tent heater BTU

Thanks for the insights. I'm looking at the nu-way propane stoves. The models go from 9000 to 28000 btu. The reason for wanting a flue is wanting dry heat. Two adults and two kids make plenty of moist air. And we wind up in the clouds in the mountains sometimes. Everything gets damp.

It looks like the challenge will be getting the heat into the air and not just going up the flue. And doing so compactly enough to not be a hazard.

...Just get a tent with provision for a stove pipe... a couple of feet of 6" pipe above the tent, or whatever the stove maker recommends, will flow plenty of smoke/fumes with a natural draft provided by the hot fumes from the combustion (and any breeze traveling past the end of the flue).. there are assorted devices (fans) available to move the hot air around, 'though I've never needed them in a tent.
The downsides of a wood stove are that you will need a spark arrester, and even with a spark arrester you should protect the area near the stovepipe to prevent sparks from burning little holes in the tent.
My biggest issues with wood stoves for heat is that many/most seem designed so that you need to refill them between midnight and dawn, and the seem to make every thing dirty.
You also need to bring tools (a fireproof bucket and a brush (preferably with scraper to clean them out. When disassembling the wood stove for transport home the soot will be a big problem...
I cannot recommend wood heat in a tent; 'though it seems to work for some folks.

I would stick with propane heat controlled, if possible, with a thermostat.

A friend wanted to vent a propane barrel heater so I cut him a relatively large piece of thin (0.030" or 0.047") aluminum (was a metal worker at the time) and punched about a 2.5 or 3+" inch hole in it; he cut a hole in the tent near the peak (cabin tent), glued the metal piece in/on, and ran some ~2.5' to 3" inch metal tubing through it from the body of the barrel heater.
I didn't think that the pipe was big enough but it seemed to work OK (he didn't die).... he also reduced the number of gas jet openings in the barrel heater because 100K BTU was simply too much.

BTW; all combustion emits waste products; if the combustion involves hydrocarbons the waste normally includes; water, carbon dioxide and often carbon monoxide with assorted other chemicals...a yellow flame is often an indicator of incomplete combustion (with excessive waste products)... always assume that you will get carbon monoxide and take appropriate actions.
Vented heaters (with outside exhaust) normally route the fumes/waste outside, thus resulting in less moisture inside.

Enjoy!

[terasec]

Re: Tent heater BTU

i use a coleman sportcat in winter
1 lb propane bottle lasts 10-14 hrs,
i generally use it to warm everything up before bed, especially bedding,
then sometimes run it for a few minutes in the middle of the night
any tent you warm up will lose its heat and revert back to outside temp very quickly, only slight difference between canvas and nylon,

[goingtentcamping]

Re: Tent heater BTU

For the most part, 5,000 BTUs will do the trick.

My advice is just get a powerful tent heater. So that if you need to go camping in really low tempts, you have the option to raise the power on your tent heater.