Mountain Camping

[CecilliaB]

Re: Mountain Camping

Question, I'm looking at adjustable tent poles but all the ones I see have rubber stoppers at the end. How do they stick in the ground...or, how do they stay up? Or am I simply looking at the wrong thing?

[a65hoosier]

Re: Mountain Camping

Question, I'm looking at adjustable tent poles but all the ones I see have rubber stoppers at the end. How do they stick in the ground...or, how do they stay up? Or am I simply looking at the wrong thing?

I have Cabelas adjustable poles in 8-10 foot sizes and they also have a rubber stopper on the bottom section of the pole (I drilled a hole to allow water to drain from the pole).

The poles do not really "stick" in the ground. They support the tarp corners and provide height. The poles are sort of pushed down (some downward pressure) into the ground by the tarp weight and by the guy lines attached to the tarp pole tip (which is on top/looped over the tarp's pole tip) and being staked to the ground.

When I use adjustable poles with my Noah's tarps, here is my set-up process: I adjust/extend the pole to near the final height I want, put the pole tip through one of the tarp's corner grommets and then loop 2 or 3 guylines over the pole tip and over the tarp grommet. (All of my guy lines are pre-made: pre-looped with a small bowline to go over the tip with 3 hole tensioners already installed on each line. I use pre made lines about 20-25 foot long for the main poles.) Place the pole where you want and extend the guy lines at 90 degrees out away from the pole and stake down them down (lightly tighten/adjust line tension). Walk the middle of the tarp down to the other pole's corner, insert pole into tarp corner grommet, 2-3 lines over pole tip, extend pole---and pull tarp ridgeline taut (tighten tarp from pole to pole). Run lines at 90 degrees to the pole (if you use a third line, I put it in the middle of the others), stake down and adjust tension. Run any additional guy lines from any other corner "wings" the tarp has or other guy out points you want depending on sun/wind/etc. I sometimes add a third pole to a tarp wing to "lift it" and provide additional head room under the tarp. Extend the poles to full height desired, do finally tension/adjustment on the lines to get them tight and the tarp taut.

It sounds hard, but it really is not after a time or two. Pre making your tarp lines speeds the set-up process. I literally loop them over the pole tip, extend the line, stake down and adjust tension. I use a minimum of 6 lines to set-up the Noah. Look online for Noah's tarps set-up videos...they can be set-up in a variety of ways. I typically use a set up called the "flying diamond" (pretty standard and the easiest).

As to your original question: What really holds the poles down with pressure on the ground is the weight of the tarp, the angle of pole and the guylines balancing the whole thing (and providing some downward pressure on the pole). Think of the letter "V" with the legs of the letter being the tarp poles. The tarp hangs in the V and your 2 or 3 guy lines attach to the top of each leg (kind of making it look like a "M" with the lines attached). When pitched properly, the tarp, the poles, and the lines all work together to keep the tarp tight, able to shed rain, and free of flapping...and strapped to the ground.

Below is a Noah's 12 using adjustable poles only. Two 9' main poles, one shorter pole on corner #3. I used three guy-lines per main pole (orange lines) in this set-up because of expected winds/storms and the unprotected location of the site. One or two lines on the other corner wings:

[MacGyver]

Re: Mountain Camping

I'm right there with a65hoosier but with substituting a bungee cord for a line tensioner on each line. Helps a lot to keep from ripping grommets out in heavier winds, especially with larger tarps. Had an 18 x 24 set up in the backyard just this afternoon for a crab feast and I'm pretty sure the 15 mph winds we had would've done some damage without the bungees.

[a65hoosier]

Re: Mountain Camping

I'm right there with a65hoosier but with substituting a bungee cord for a line tensioner on each line. Helps a lot to keep from ripping grommets out in heavier winds, especially with larger tarps. Had an 18 x 24 set up in the backyard just this afternoon for a crab feast and I'm pretty sure the 15 mph winds we had would've done some damage without the bungees.

The lines aren't really attached to the tarp grommets as I only have a small bowline loop in them that I loop over the pole tip. I do put the pole tip through the tarp grommet, but that is all that is actually hooked to the tarp. I haven't pulled a grommet out on the Noah yet. Maybe nylon paracord provides some stretch and the shape of the Noah helps cut the wind with a tight pitch. Of course...I only use smaller tarps 12x12, 16x16....and I took down the 16 the last time out when 50-60 mph winds were expected (and we got'em too.) Left everything laying out but still staked (except the tarp)...and quickly reset up the next morning.

[CecilliaB]

Re: Mountain Camping

This is such helpful information a65hoosier thank you for taking the time to write that out and include a picture. Makes much more sense! For sure going to do a run through at home a couple times to get the hang of it once I get all the equipment!

[James.]

Re: Mountain Camping

This is such helpful information a65hoosier thank you for taking the time to write that out and include a picture. Makes much more sense! For sure going to do a run through at home a couple times to get the hang of it once I get all the equipment!

Make sure you let us know how it turns out.

[Irate Mormon]

Re: Mountain Camping

That isn't the same knot I call a slipknot, but it does have it's uses.

[Stillness Wilderness]

Re: Mountain Camping

a65hoosier - do you setup a ridge line with the Kelty tarp in addition to hanging it pole to pole, or just do pole to pole?

Thanks!
SW

[a65hoosier]

Re: Mountain Camping

a65hoosier - do you setup a ridge line with the Kelty tarp in addition to hanging it pole to pole, or just do pole to pole?

Thanks!
SW

The lack of trees, or being unable to lawfully tie off to them, limits my ability to string the Kelty with an official ridgeline (all kinds of vids out on youtube demonstrating Noah set-ups using ridgelines, etc.). I think the value in the tarp overall is it's versatility in meeting the needs of your particular camping situation. It can be pitched in many different ways.

Generally, I run the tarp pole to pole and batten it down with guy outs (longer line on my main poled corners, shorter line length for the tarp "wings".)

I've never strung a ridgeline and hung the Noah from that line. There are loops sewn in on the top of the tarp for this purpose...I've just never used them.

Sometimes I do run a line under the tarp, circled around each pole tip with each end of the line staked down, but I hesitate to think of it as an official "ridgeline", since the tarp can be pitched without this additional under tarp line. (note: sometimes means if I remember to rig it up when I am first setting up the tarp-this is much harder to do after the fact when the pole tips are 10 foot off the ground).

I use this "ridgeline" to hang LED lanterns over the table or even hang wet clothing to dry (all under the cover of the tarp).

I'll be out camping again in 2 weeks and will try to take some pictures to show my set-up in closer detail.

Noah's Tarp 16, 10 foot Cabelas adjustable steel poles, tarp strung pole to pole - no ridgeline under:

[Stillness Wilderness]

Re: Mountain Camping

Thanks for the info a65hoosier and the pic! I'll give it a try.

SW

[Irate Mormon]

Re: Mountain Camping

Don't know if the Noah or Kelty are caternary cut, but this is a design feature which eliminates the need for a ridgeline and gives you a nice, taut pitch. Almost all UL tarps are caternary. If you like to roll your own, there is software which will calculate the curve for you, in case you're mathematically challenged. Making your own gear is very rewarding. I haven't sewn a tarp yet (no sewing machine) but beer can stoves and such are fun to make.

[a65hoosier]

Re: Mountain Camping

Don't know if the Noah or Kelty are caternary cut...

All Kelty Noahs are catenary.

[James.]

Re: Mountain Camping

All Kelty Noahs are catenary.

what is the advantage of catenary?

[a65hoosier]

Re: Mountain Camping

what is the advantage of catenary?

All my opinion.......

You can generally get a more taut pitch, with fewer tie-outs needed, in a cat-cut tarp over a square or rectangle tarp. The taut pitch reduces/eliminates wind flap noise along the edges (I've found this to be true in my experience).

Quicker set-up (think impending rain), fewer lines, less noise in wind (and maybe some longevity since the material isn't being flapped like a flag all the time).

On the flip side, the Noah with it's cat-cut is harder than a square/rectangle tarp to get into an A frame or a Lean Two configuration. I normally pitch the Noah in the Flying Diamond config (see pic above). Maximum shade (or rain protection), maximum headroom underneath. But to block one side, say for wind or setting sun protection, then a square/rectangle tarp shines. Oh, you can get the Noah into those configs, but it requires more fiddle around time to make it so.

[MacGyver]

Re: Mountain Camping

Maybe I'm missing something, but it's always struck me that the flying diamond setup wastes coverage because of the narrow corners at the peak. That's the reason why I've always avoided cat cuts in favor of rectangular tarps. Bungees on the tieouts keep things nice and tight and have yet to fail me in everything short of heavy snow. I wish there was someone in my group that had a cat cut so I could see one "in action".