Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

[kwanbis]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

Thanks for all the comments. Here are mine:

Dear OP. why don't you visit a sporting goods store in Columbia and see what they recommend for the conditions you will experience in Columbia? Surely they have sporting goods stores with tents there. I find that local retailers usually offer gear best suited for local conditions.

I would try, but I don't belive there are many places and the ones they do exist do not have much variety.

The only one I would consider from this list is the Coleman Canyon Breeze, and even that one is iffy because of the hub pole design. All the others you listed have minimal (at best) rainfly coverage, so if not getting wet is a top priority, those tents aren't going to cut it unless you hang a tarp over the whole tent if it rains.

Getting wet is no fun at our ages, more so because the climate is a little bit on the cold side.

Are you totally against two smaller tents? I know it's been mentioned a couple of times, but I really think you should look at this option as it allows you many more configurations and flexibility, as well as better structural integrity and rain protection. Really, when camping you only sleep and change clothes in your tent, the rest of the time you are outside, so you may not need as much tent space as you think you would, just room for your bed and gear.

I'm not against it. It is just that I believe that it would be "funnier" to spend the night talking shit till we fall asleep and if we are in two separate tents, that is not that possible. But we do are considering it. What would you recommend?

If you want rain and/or bug protection, consider an overhead tarp, shade tent or screen house separate from your sleeping tent(s). Once you get up to the 8 person or more tents, they tend to be mostly cabin style tents, which are admittedly not the best design for rain protection, but perfect for lots of space to move around.

Overhead tarp is just some "plastic" to put on top of the tent so that the water does not gets into, right? What are shade tent and screen house?

If you want a larger tent with the best capability for staying dry without an additional overhead tarp, consider these: EUREKA! Tetragon 8 - 2 Room - 8 Person Tent This is a full rainfly tent that is 12'x10', and has a room divider to make it two 6'x10' rooms if you wanted to.

Eureka also has the Tetragon 10 - 2 Room - 10 Person Tent that measures 14'x12', or two 7'x12' rooms using the room divider.

You could *maybe* get away with one tent with either of these options, but for 8-10 man tents under $300, these offer much better rain protection than most.

Thanks. I was waiting for someone to recommend something beside what I have found. I like both models so far. But why the "*maybe* get away"?

If you want to consider two smaller tents, Kelty makes great tents with full rainfly coverage, and also feature the vestibules on one or both sides for storing gear, shoes and whatnot, so it is not taking up space in the sleeping area of the tent. Here are two 6-man tent options:
Kelty - Acadia 6 - 6 Person Tent
This one is an 8'x10', but has the front and back vestibules for storage, as well as full rainfly coverage.

Kelty Hula House 6 Person Tent
This one is an 10'6"x10'6", and has only the one front vestibule for storage, and also has full rainfly coverage. The "hula" design with the hoop on the top holds the sides of the tent straighter than traditional dome tents, so can be (and feel) much roomier.

The above tents give you a MUCH better chance to stay dry over the cabin tents and Coleman modified dome tents you listed.

Why would I want to buy either of this for about the same cost as the Eurekas? Do you really believe they are so much better than the Eurekas? By the way, there is a complain that the Hula "has 2 steel poles & 1 dac pole for the hula hoop. The steel poles have paper thin (literally 3 sheets of copypaper) ferrules. They shatter easily. I broke 2 on the same pole". So that would not be good for me.

Don't forget the earplugs.

Why earplugs? Because snoring?

One of the problems with threads like this: The honest answer is that it is not possible to buy a quality 8 to 16 person tent that will be 100% dry and withstand any significant rain for $300. The best you can hope for is to be dry in a drizzle or light shower with little or no blowing rain as you might get in a thunderstorm. The problem is that tents this large require very substantial and costly pole structures (and even then, huge tents present real challenges in the wind).

My point of view is, if Coleman can offer the Red Canon for 100 dollars, and it is a good enough tent that is on of the bestsellers at Amazon with 866 reviews and 4.4 average, I'm sure that with triple that cost the tent has to be much better than good enough. Or what I'm missing here?

Remember, I want the Honda of tents, I don't want the Porsche of tents.

If I were outfitting a camping trip for buddies and wanted to be 100% protected in rain and wind, I would go with two 4 to 6 person tents from a quality manufacturer and then some kind of tarp/screen room for socializing.

I'm open to suggestions. What would you suggest? Remember my budget is 300. 330 if there is a very good reason.

Thanks!

[toedtoes]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

My point of view is, if Coleman can offer the Red Canon for 100 dollars, and it is a good enough tent that is on of the bestsellers at Amazon with 866 reviews and 4.4 average, I'm sure that with triple that cost the tent has to be much better than good enough. Or what I'm missing here?

Remember, I want the Honda of tents, I don't want the Porsche of tents.

You're assuming that quality is always directly related to cost regardless of how the item is used. Coleman may be a best seller on Amazon because the folks buying tents on Amazon are mostly casual family campers. How a family of 6 (2 adults and 4 kids under 10) uses a tent is going to be different than how 8 grown men use a tent. A campsite in Texas is going to have different needs than a campsite in Colombia. A 14x10 tent is going to have different stresses than an 8x7 tent? And so on.

To use your car comparison: Just because a Dodge Dart is well below my price point, doesn't mean that a Dodge Durango at my price point is going to be a good choice for my needs. The size might be right, but maybe I need more towing capacity or better off-road capabilities that aren't available on the Dodge. So while the Durango gets 866 reviews with a 4.4 average, is at my price point, and is the right physical size, it doesn't necessarily do what I need it to do.

I think at some point, you're going to have to bite the bullet and buy the tent that YOU think is what you want rather than waiting for everyone on this board to tell you which tent to buy. You've gotten a lot of feedback about things to consider, what the most important factors are (not getting wet), etc. Consider those as you look at the choices offered and make the best choice to you.

[MacGyver]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

I think at some point, you're going to have to bite the bullet and buy the tent that YOU think is what you want rather than waiting for everyone on this board to tell you which tent to buy. You've gotten a lot of feedback about things to consider, what the most important factors are (not getting wet), etc. Consider those as you look at the choices offered and make the best choice to you.

Well said!

[hwc1954]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

TMy point of view is, if Coleman can offer the Red Canon for 100 dollars, and it is a good enough tent that is on of the bestsellers at Amazon with 866 reviews and 4.4 average, I'm sure that with triple that cost the tent has to be much better than good enough. Or what I'm missing here?

Remember, I want the Honda of tents, I don't want the Porsche of tents.

My definition of "good enough" in a tent is:

a) to keep water out, every time, in all conditions.

b) to withstand the wind of a summer storm.

I don't believe that that the Coleman Red Canyon (and similar large "family tents" in that price range) are good enough by that definition. Not to pick on Coleman. There's a market for very inexpensive huge family tents, but it is simply not possible to hit these price points with "Honda grade" materials. Hondas are very high quality cars with very high quality materials.

One example. These tents are not seam sealed to keep water from leaking in where seams are sewn. Factory seam sealing (with waterproof tape) is now standard on any halfway decent tent.

Another example. Waterproofness for fabric is measured in mm. How tall a column of water (in mm) can be applied to a stretched piece of the fabric before water drips through the material. This is important because you are putting pressure on, for example, the floor of a tent when you walk or kneel on it. It's why rain jackets leak under the straps of a backpack, etc. The minimum rating that is considered waterproof for a tent fabric is 1000mm and that is very marginal. It would only be waterproof when brand new. Quality tents have floor fabrics that are rated between 1500 (very light backpacking tents and 5000 (heavy duty winter tents). Coleman doesn't even tell you, but I've seen one reference that says the floor of this tent is 450 mm. That would be water repellent in a jacket, not water proof. In a tent floor? Not waterproof. If you read the reviews, people say it's great in the rain, but no tent will keep you dry. Or, it's great in the rain, we sealed the seams and apply Granger spray sealant to the entire tent every year. Or, it's great in the rain. Just a little water came in. Decent tents stay dry inside. Period. But, you can't make a waterproof 10 man tent for $129.

Another example: The whole idea of a separate rain fly to do deal with condensation. With people breathing in a tent, a tremendous amount of moisture condenses on the walls of the tent. In the old days, if your sleeping bag touched a tent wall, it got wet. Double wall tents have an inner tent that is not water proof (except the floor) and breathable. The rainfly covers the tent with an air gap of several inches. The rain fly is waterproof and moisture condenses on the inside of the rain fly where it can run down to the ground, not dripping on you. The Coleman tent is a single wall wall tent in all areas below the partial rain fly, an example of major compromise in real world function to hit a low price point. Bring a towel to mop of up the water.

Another example: what happens in a thunderstorm when rain is blowing sideways? What keeps it out of the tent with a rain fly that doesn't extend down the sides?

There's a reason why people who camp a lot in these kinds of tents put a blue tarp over them.

---------------

If I had to buy tents for four guys to go camping under $300 after a quick browse of the current deals, I would probably buy a pair of these Kelty 4-man dome tents for $143 each:

http://www.sunnysports.com/p-kltta4/kelty-acadia-4-tent

Standard two pole dome tents with a third ridge pole to extend the fly over the doors. Big enough for two guys to sleep comfortably. Two doors with full vestibules to keep stuff out of the rain. Big enough for four guys to sit around and play cards and drink some beer. Fully seam taped. The materials are decent Honda quality with adequate waterproofing (1800 mm). I'm not wild about the fiberglass poles, but something's gotta give in a cheap tent. A pair of these would be a nice setup for four people, would be 100% dry out of the box, and (with the guylines) would withstand a summer storm.

If you could stretch a bit, you could get a pair of very high quality tents from Sierra Trading Post. Sign up for their e-mail list to get bombarded with 35% discount codes.

Use them to buy two of these 4-man Marmot Oddessy tents for $208 each after the 35% discount code. Bigger than the Kelty. Four pole dome tent is super strong. High end DAC aluminum poles. These things would handle a lot of wind. Two doors. Two vestibules. Very high quality materials. 1800 mm water proofing on the rain fly. 3000 mm water proofing on the tent floor. YKK zippers. Etc. Etc. These are Honda Accord tents: very high quality materials from a manufacturer that also sells Porsche quality tents if you want to spend some serious money.

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/mar...colorFamily=01

Or for a little less money, two of these Big Agnes tents for $195 each. Slightly smaller 4-man dome tent. Quality lightweight fabrics (1500mm waterproofing). Aluminum poles. Not as strong or storm proof as the Marmot, but stronger than the Kelty's. And the price includes factory footprints to put under the tent to double the waterproofing of the floor and keep the floor of the tent clean and damage free.

Just giving it an hour looking around at today's sales, those are the three options I would consider. I think you would be a LOT more comfortable than putting four guys in one tent. If it had to be one tent, I would consider these options:

Marmot Limestone 6P $365
This is an awesome large 6P tent measuring 10 x 10 with vertical walls, two doors. two vestibules, very heavy duty materials, very strong poles.

http://www.sunnysports.com/p-mrmtls6...at-spring-2014

http://youtu.be/ruhNdHZ8IIU
http://youtu.be/U_Y_atc-KUw

Eureka 6P tent: $299
At 8 x 10 feet, it's really small for four guys, IMO. But, it's decent quality materials, aluminum poles, etc. And it's cheap.

http://www.sunnysports.com/p-erkttrb...asecamp-6-tent

Kelty Hula House 6 $318
Nice design. Quality materials. Cheap. 10 x 10. One door. One vestibule. Designed by the same guy who did the Marmot Halo. Although frankly, I 'd spend the extra $40 and get the Marmot Limestone above.

http://www.sunnysports.com/p-kltth6/...a-house-6-tent

[Shortpants]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

I'm not against it. It is just that I believe that it would be "funnier" to spend the night talking shit till we fall asleep and if we are in two separate tents, that is not that possible. But we do are considering it. What would you recommend?

See my previous post and the post from hwc1954, both list very good options for 4-6 man tents.

Overhead tarp is just some "plastic" to put on top of the tent so that the water does not gets into, right? What are shade tent and screen house?

Exactly. An overhead tarp is something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Duty-Blu...rds=12x20+tarp
Use rope/bungee cords to suspend the tarp over the top of your entire tent and you are all but guaranteed to stay dry, no matter what the tent is underneath. As I've mentioned before, we have a huge 12'x16' family cabin tent that was super cheap (under $200, if I remember right), but I knew we were getting a cheap tent, so got a tarp big enough to cover the whole thing in the event of rain and we haven't had a drop of water in the tent in the 3 years we have owned it.
Shade tents and screen tents are separate structures from your tent that give you weather and/or bug protection outside your tent for cooking/eating/hanging out.
Shade tent:
http://www.amazon.com/E-Z-UP-SR9104B...s=shade+canopy

Screen house:
http://www.amazon.com/Wenzel-Valley-...ts+for+camping

Thanks. I was waiting for someone to recommend something beside what I have found. I like both models so far. But why the "*maybe* get away"?

Simply because of the square footage, you *might* be able to jam eight people in there together, but it would be very, very cozy.

My point of view is, if Coleman can offer the Red Canon for 100 dollars, and it is a good enough tent that is on of the bestsellers at Amazon with 866 reviews and 4.4 average, I'm sure that with triple that cost the tent has to be much better than good enough. Or what I'm missing here?

Simply put, ANY tent is "good enough" if it gets you outdoors and camping. Are the Marmot/Eureka/Kelty/Etc tents much better quality and design than the Coleman/Ozark Trail/Wenzel tents? Yes, they are. If you want a tent that has the best chance of staying dry without adding any additional tarps overhead or rain protection of any sort, go with a full rainfly, more expensive tent. If you are willing to string up a tarp overhead and have your heart set on all staying together in one tent, go with the Coleman or any less expensive tent that suits your wants and needs.

[michelliot]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

Morning Kwanbis,

BUY IT ALREADY!!!!

When's the infamous excursion taking place?
It's getting towards the end of the season and warehouses are not infinite. You'll finally make a decision only to find that the lucky winner you choose is nowhere to be found. The sooner you pick the more options you'll have.

I usually say enjoy the quest, but the quest is over and it's time to buy the one YOU decided upon.

Good luck and clear skies,
elliot

[howl]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

Having looked at tents offered by an online retailer operating in Colombia, I can offer another opinion. Any of the tents listed in this thread would be an excellent choice over what is otherwise available. The worst you can do will be great!

[hwc1954]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

I just noticed that you have to buy from Amazon. The Kelty 4P tent I suggested is available from Amazon at $145. so two of them would be under your budget at $290. $350 with two optional footprints (fitted groundcloth to go under the tent).

http://www.amazon.com/Kelty-40814912.../dp/B005F5L8XI
http://www.kelty.com/p-605-acadia-4.aspx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikObhFkXgjg

Or, if you want the same basic tent with aluminum poles, Amazon has one from Mountainsmith for $155. So two of them would be $310. An extra $64 if you want two factory footprint. This one lacks the brow pole for the vestibules, but is otherwise the same. Two doors, two vestibules. Less mesh, more fabric so it would be good in cooler weather. This appears to have very durable fabrics. 2000 mm waterproofing on the rain fly. 5000mm waterproofing on the floor. Looks like a very solid basic car camping tent for $155. I think a pair of these would set you up with something that would be comfortable for four guys, be 100% waterproof, handle reasonable wind, and last for years of occasional camping trips.

http://www.amazon.com/Mountainsmith-.../dp/B004K822EU
http://mountainsmith.com/index.php/p...genesee-4.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzE3...6ujVJhwPcbKgVg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEc3gPi58JY

[kwanbis]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

Having looked at tents offered by an online retailer operating in Colombia, I can offer another opinion. Any of the tents listed in this thread would be an excellent choice over what is otherwise available. The worst you can do will be great!

That was my point and why I'm asking so much here. It is no funny to buy something and realize it is not what you want and can not return it.

I think at some point, you're going to have to bite the bullet and buy the tent that YOU think is what you want rather than waiting for everyone on this board to tell you which tent to buy. You've gotten a lot of feedback about things to consider, what the most important factors are (not getting wet), etc. Consider those as you look at the choices offered and make the best choice to you.

In the end I would have to go and buy something. But today we have the internet where we can have forums just like this one where people with much more experience than me can give me recommendations to help me decide.

My definition of "good enough" in a tent is:
a) to keep water out, every time, in all conditions.
b) to withstand the wind of a summer storm.

Exactly my definition of good enough. Only thing is that I'm not that concerned with "summer storm" because there are no such things in Colombia.

I don't believe that that the Coleman Red Canyon (and similar large "family tents" in that price range) are good enough by that definition. Not to pick on Coleman. There's a market for very inexpensive huge family tents, but it is simply not possible to hit these price points with "Honda grade" materials. Hondas are very high quality cars with very high quality materials.

Point taken.

One example. These tents are not seam sealed to keep water from leaking in where seams are sewn. Factory seam sealing (with waterproof tape) is now standard on any halfway decent tent.

Sorry, too colloquial for my english. What is seam sealed? A type of seal over the zippers?

Another example. Waterproofness for fabric is measured in mm. How tall a column of water (in mm) can be applied to a stretched piece of the fabric before water drips through the material. This is important because you are putting pressure on, for example, the floor of a tent when you walk or kneel on it. It's why rain jackets leak under the straps of a backpack, etc. The minimum rating that is considered waterproof for a tent fabric is 1000mm and that is very marginal. It would only be waterproof when brand new. Quality tents have floor fabrics that are rated between 1500 (very light backpacking tents and 5000 (heavy duty winter tents). Coleman doesn't even tell you, but I've seen one reference that says the floor of this tent is 450 mm. That would be water repellent in a jacket, not water proof. In a tent floor? Not waterproof. If you read the reviews, people say it's great in the rain, but no tent will keep you dry. Or, it's great in the rain, we sealed the seams and apply Granger spray sealant to the entire tent every year. Or, it's great in the rain. Just a little water came in. Decent tents stay dry inside. Period. But, you can't make a waterproof 10 man tent for $129.

WONDERFUL EXPLANATION!

Another example: The whole idea of a separate rain fly to do deal with condensation. With people breathing in a tent, a tremendous amount of moisture condenses on the walls of the tent. In the old days, if your sleeping bag touched a tent wall, it got wet. Double wall tents have an inner tent that is not water proof (except the floor) and breathable. The rainfly covers the tent with an air gap of several inches. The rain fly is waterproof and moisture condenses on the inside of the rain fly where it can run down to the ground, not dripping on you. The Coleman tent is a single wall wall tent in all areas below the partial rain fly, an example of major compromise in real world function to hit a low price point. Bring a towel to mop of up the water.

ANOTHER WONDERFUL EXAMPLE. This is what I want. I consider myself smart enough that I'm not ok with just "don't buy that, is bad", I want a good explanation like the ones you are giving me, cause I want to know why.

If I had to buy tents for four guys to go camping under $300 after a quick browse of the current deals, I would probably buy a pair of these Kelty 4-man dome tents for $145 each. So two of them would be under your budget at $290. $350 with two optional footprints (fitted groundcloth to go under the tent).

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005F5L8XI
http://www.kelty.com/p-605-acadia-4.aspx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikObhFkXgjg

Standard two pole dome tents with a third ridge pole to extend the fly over the doors. Big enough for two guys to sleep comfortably. Two doors with full vestibules to keep stuff out of the rain. Big enough for four guys to sit around and play cards and drink some beer. Fully seam taped. The materials are decent Honda quality with adequate waterproofing (1800 mm). I'm not wild about the fiberglass poles, but something's gotta give in a cheap tent. A pair of these would be a nice setup for four people, would be 100% dry out of the box, and (with the guylines) would withstand a summer storm.

I don't undestand what you mean by "with two optional footprints (fitted groundcloth to go under the tent)." Can you elavorate?

Or, if you want the same basic tent with aluminum poles, Amazon has one from Mountainsmith for $155. So two of them would be $310. An extra $64 if you want two factory footprint. This one lacks the brow pole for the vestibules, but is otherwise the same. Two doors, two vestibules. Less mesh, more fabric so it would be good in cooler weather. This appears to have very durable fabrics. 2000 mm waterproofing on the rain fly. 5000mm waterproofing on the floor. Looks like a very solid basic car camping tent for $155. I think a pair of these would set you up with something that would be comfortable for four guys, be 100% waterproof, handle reasonable wind, and last for years of occasional camping trips.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004K822EU
http://mountainsmith.com/index.php/p...genesee-4.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzE3...6ujVJhwPcbKgVg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEc3gPi58JY

I would have to assume that aluminum ples are better, and just 10 dollars seems about right if that is the case.

If you could stretch a bit, you could get a pair of very high quality tents from Sierra Trading Post. Sign up for their e-mail list to get bombarded with 35% discount codes. Use them to buy two of these 4-man Marmot Oddessy tents for $208 each after the 35% discount code. Bigger than the Kelty. Four pole dome tent is super strong. High end DAC aluminum poles. These things would handle a lot of wind. Two doors. Two vestibules. Very high quality materials. 1800 mm water proofing on the rain fly. 3000 mm water proofing on the tent floor. YKK zippers. Etc. Etc. These are Honda Accord tents: very high quality materials from a manufacturer that also sells Porsche quality tents if you want to spend some serious money.

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/marmot-odyssey-4-tent-4-person-3-season~p~5153y/

They seem to be very nice and just above our maximum budget. I would have to see if I can order with my colombian credit card.

Or for a little less money, two of these Big Agnes tents for $195 each. Slightly smaller 4-man dome tent. Quality lightweight fabrics (1500mm waterproofing). Aluminum poles. Not as strong or storm proof as the Marmot, but stronger than the Kelty's. And the price includes factory footprints to put under the tent to double the waterproofing of the floor and keep the floor of the tent clean and damage free.

Too little difference it seems to consider them.

If it had to be one tent, I would consider these options:

Marmot Limestone 6P $365. This is an awesome large 6P tent measuring 10 x 10 with vertical walls, two doors. two vestibules, very heavy duty materials, very strong poles.

http://www.sunnysports.com/p-mrmtls6n/
http://youtu.be/ruhNdHZ8IIU
http://youtu.be/U_Y_atc-KUw

Eureka 6P tent: $299
At 8 x 10 feet, it's really small for four guys, IMO. But, it's decent quality materials, aluminum poles, etc. And it's cheap.

http://www.sunnysports.com/p-erkttrb...asecamp-6-tent

Since you mention the Eureka, wouldn't the EUREKA! Tetragon 8 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0064EDJYU or EUREKA! Tetragon 10 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C37POD6 be good choices?

Kelty Hula House 6 $318
Nice design. Quality materials. Cheap. 10 x 10. One door. One vestibule. Designed by the same guy who did the Marmot Halo. Although frankly, I 'd spend the extra $40 and get the Marmot Limestone above.

http://www.sunnysports.com/p-kltth6/

Amazon has it for 280, si it would be 80 dollars more than the Marmot Limestone on that case. Do you have direct experience with it? One of the reviewer states "This tent has 2 steel poles & 1 dac pole for the hula hoop. The steel poles have paper thin (literally 3 sheets of copypaper) ferrules. They shatter easily. I broke 2 on the same pole. Neat design, but poles not up to Kelty standards, in my opinion.".

[kwanbis]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

Exactly. An overhead tarp is something like this http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FHDOYSO
Use rope/bungee cords to suspend the tarp over the top of your entire tent and you are all but guaranteed to stay dry, no matter what the tent is underneath. As I've mentioned before, we have a huge 12'x16' family cabin tent that was super cheap (under $200, if I remember right), but I knew we were getting a cheap tent, so got a tarp big enough to cover the whole thing in the event of rain and we haven't had a drop of water in the tent in the 3 years we have owned it.

Simply put, ANY tent is "good enough" if it gets you outdoors and camping. Are the Marmot/Eureka/Kelty/Etc tents much better quality and design than the Coleman/Ozark Trail/Wenzel tents? Yes, they are. If you want a tent that has the best chance of staying dry without adding any additional tarps overhead or rain protection of any sort, go with a full rainfly, more expensive tent. If you are willing to string up a tarp overhead and have your heart set on all staying together in one tent, go with the Coleman or any less expensive tent that suits your wants and needs.

The problem I see with overhead tarps is that you have to buy the tarp, four (or more?) poles, and the cords. In the end, how much would that add to the cost? Also, for us that are newbies, that would be another complication. But it would depend on the final costs. We would have to evaluate, but without much thought, I think no tarp is better.

[MacGyver]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

kwanbis - I could very well be reading you wrong (trying to understand people from a print medium is bad like that) but you appear to be hesitant in committing to the gear that will best fit your requirements. No, tarps aren't a necessity and, yes, they are an extra expense and yes, they do make setting up a bit more complicated. But, at least in my mind, the fact that one of the main issues you specified was keeping dry, a tarp is highly recommended.

It's a shame because I picture you and your friends going out one time, having trouble setting up, maybe even dealing with some weather issues and giving up on a great hobby. Like just about anything, doing something for the first time won't go as smoothly as it would the 10th time you do it. I don't want to discourage you, but you're most likely going to do some things that don't turn out like you expect them to. We've all been there! If you can, look at your first camping trip as a challenge and a learning experience. Remembering any mistakes you made and figuring out how to remedy them will make the next trip even better the next time.

[hwc1954]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

I don't undestand what you mean by "with two optional footprints (fitted groundcloth to go under the tent)." Can you elavorate?

Just a waterproof tarp to put under the tent. You can make your own out of plastic sheet, or buy one with the tent that is custom cut and made with the same material as the floor of the tent. It's not essential, but it keeps the floor of the tent clean (easier to wash the mud off the optional footprint) and provides some additional protection from rocks and stones.

The Kelty Hula 6 for $280 would be an excellent choice in a 10 foot by 10 foot tent. I still think you are better off with two 4-person tents rather than squeezing four guys in one tent, but the Kelty would be a quality tent, a quality design, and quality materials within your budget. The single door is really the only downside to that tent.

I don't like the fiberglass poles for the Eureka Tetragon tents. The 8-person Tetragon is a very large tent for a 2-pole dome design. With fiberglass poles, I think you risk broken poles. The Kelty Hula 6 (and the Marmot Limestone 6) are nearly as large, but use very high quality, 12mm wide DAC aluminum poles -- very strong. The fiberglass poles on a very large tent are one of the major reasons I think the Coleman Red Canyon is a poor choice. And, in fact, if you read the Amazon reviews, broken poles, even the first time camping with a brand new tent, is the most common complaint. The only broken aluminum pole I've ever seen is when someone fell down on a 2-man dome tent. Even then, the pole was still perfectly useable, just bent.

One thing to consider is whether there are additional poles pulling the side walls out vertical. The Kelty and Marmot have that. The Eureka does not. Makes a big difference in usable space in the tent.

[hwc1954]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

I think tarps have their place:



But, if a tent requires a tarp over it to stay dry, that tent fails the most basic requirement of a tent!

In kwanbis' case, I think a tarp would be perfect to put up between two 4-man tents, creating a covered seating area for playing cards and drinking whiskey! I have been known to take a swig of some single malt scotch while sitting under my tarp.

[kwanbis]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

One thing to consider is whether there are additional poles pulling the side walls out vertical. The Kelty and Marmot have that. The Eureka does not. Makes a big difference in usable space in the tent.

Thanks again for all your time. It seems to me that your choices are, from worst to best:

Kelty Acadia 4 $145
Mountainsmith Genesee 4 $150
Big Agnes $195 (specifically what model?)
Marmot Odyssey 4 $208

Then, for 6 or more people tents:

EUREKA! Tetragon 8 $247
EUREKA! Tetragon 10 $299
Kelty Hula House 6 $280 (too small, only "6" people)
Eureka 6P tent $299 (too small, only "6" people)
Marmot Limestone 6P $365 (too expensive and too small, only "6" people)

Is my interpretation of your ranking of tents correct?

So it looks to me like the better choice is two Mountainsmith Genesee 4 for $150 each, or, if we can stretch alittle bit, two Marmot Odysseys for $208 each.

I don't know what "Big Agnes" you are talking about because there is no link, so I can not evaluate that option. I've looked at sierra trading, and it seems to be this one http://www.sierratradingpost.com/big...eason~p~6979r/ but that is 244 each. Can you tell me which one?

THANKS!

[hwc1954]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

kwanbis:

Yes, that's pretty much how I rank them. Looks like the 4-man Big Agnes I saw for $195 is sold out and gone. No big deal. For $13 more, the Marmot Odyssey is a lot more substantial tent.

I really think you would be a lot more comfortable with two tents for four guys. Plus, it gives you options to use them in places where a big family tent would not fit or not make sense. Guys are getting up all night long, if you know what I mean. With four guys in a tent with one door, nobody is going to get any sleep. If it were me, just based on the options I saw with a quick look, the Mountainsmith Genessee 4 and the Marmot Odyssey 4 would be the best two options.

The expensive Big Agnes doesn't make sense for your purposes. It's an ultra light backpacking tent and you pay a fortune for ultralight fabrics and poles... and you give up durability and storm protection. For car camping, where weight isn't much of a concern, the ultra light tents are poor value.

The Marmot Odyssey is exactly the size and shape (8 ft x 8 ft) as the Marmot Halo in the photo of my tarp above. Same materials, same heavy duty DAC aluminum poles. With four poles, that will be a seriously strong tent. In fact the Halo 4 footprint would fit the Odyssey perfectly if you ever wanted to get it. I think my Halo 4P is the ideal size for a real 2-person tent. Room for two people plus duffel bags for clothes, etc. It ridiculous for one person, but I'm car camping and it's nice to have a tent I can stand up in enough to change clothes. I sleep on a big cot in mine.

I found a video of the same tent (the Marmot Den 4P). The Odyssey appears to be exactly the same but, with all mesh on the inner tent instead of mesh and fabric panels. Everything else appears to be identical. It's a lot of tent for $208. I find these videos really help to visualize these tents.

http://youtu.be/9Jr54yETUYQ

Here's a good photo looking in the back door that gives an ideal of size with someone lying on an air mattress: