Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

[Mike]

I camp in winter where temps can be below zero F.

Usually, I camp in free standing tents and use deadman stakes that I just bury in the snow

Now, I want to bring a group and set up a big old-school family sized canvas tent. It definitely needs stakes

Last year, I used some steel stakes. They pounded into the ground OK, but getting them out of the ground was a nightmare

Does anybody have suggestions? Will deadman branches/etc buried in snow hold?

I remember someone suggesting bringing a propane torch to heat up the stakes for removal, but I cannot envision using a torch on the stakes without burning the tent or the stake loops

Ideas/Suggestions?

[markkee]

Re: Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

Find out what the ice fishing guys use. They must use some heating device when they have to move their house from one spot to the next.

[MacGyver]

Re: Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

I was the one who suggested using a torch but that probably just worked for me because of the way I used stake out my tarps. I never drove them all the way down and I untied the guy lines before I hit 'em with a torch. To be honest, I didn't think about tent pegs that were driven to the ground.

The only thing I can think of right off the top of my head to get around this problem would be to carry a long spike or a piece of rebar to drive in right next to the peg to give it some wiggle room. But that also might depend on the type of peg you're using. I'm in the experimental stage with this myself. I haven't had a canvas tent in years and, when I did have one, I wasn't going out in winter. But I'm about to find out what's what next week. I'll be using 12 inch galvanized spike and I'm counting on a pair of visegrips to pull 'em. If I can't pull 'em with brute force, I'll resort to rigging something up to give me more leverage. (Gotta play MacGyver every chance I get )

Then again, markkee had a good idea in checking out the ice fishing peoples' solution.

[MacGyver]

Re: Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

I was the one who suggested using a torch but that probably just worked for me because of the way I used stake out my tarps. I never drove them all the way down and I untied the guy lines before I hit 'em with a torch. To be honest, I didn't think about tent pegs that were driven to the ground.

The only thing I can think of right off the top of my head to get around this problem would be to carry a long spike or a piece of rebar to drive in right next to the peg to give it some wiggle room. But that also might depend on the type of peg you're using. I'm in the experimental stage with this myself. I haven't had a canvas tent in years and, when I did have one, I wasn't going out in winter. But I'm about to find out what's what next week. I'll be using 12 inch galvanized spikes and I'm counting on a pair of visegrips to pull 'em. If I can't pull 'em with brute force, I'll resort to rigging something up to give me more leverage. (Gotta play MacGyver every chance I get )

Then again, markkee had a good idea in checking out the ice fishing peoples' solution.

[terasec]

Re: Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

For ice fishing we use ice anchors which are like threaded spikes with a handle
Most use a cordless drill attachment as its difficult to drive in ice by hand
Works on ice but not on snow or anything loose
I would use large rocks buried in snow more secure than sticks
If removing frozen rock is a concern
Loop the line once around the rock and tie back up on itself this way line can come out and rock stays put

[Mike]

Re: Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

Ya know...

For about fifty cents each, I can get big spike nails that I could use to stake out the four corners. I could then use deadman anchors between the corners. When we leave, just pound the stakes flush into the ground and consider it a cost of camping at $2.00

That might not seem like much to you folks, but here in Wisconsin, we think of cost in terms of beer. In Wisconsin, you can buy a six pack of beer for less than $2.00, so it is hard to leave that kind of opportunity buried in the ground.

[markkee]

Re: Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

@Mike

Beer is an important calculation for any outdoor activity. A good friend was flown into a remote location in Alaska to fish. They had very strict weight limits. My friend Greg used the "pound per pint rule". They took one less person on the trip than originally planned because a full grown man weighing 200 meant taking an addition 200 pint cans of beer for the week long fishing trip. Do the math. They were able to have 7 beers more per day by eliminating one person.

[Mike]

Re: Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

@Mike

Beer is an important calculation for any outdoor activity. A good friend was flown into a remote location in Alaska to fish. They had very strict weight limits. My friend Greg used the "pound per pint rule". They took one less person on the trip than originally planned because a full grown man weighing 200 meant taking an addition 200 pint cans of beer for the week long fishing trip. Do the math. They were able to have 7 beers more per day by eliminating one person.

This is, perhaps, the best argument I have heard in support of camping alone

[Moss]

Re: Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

In fur trapping earth anchors and stakes (rebar) are pulled using a specifically designed tool. Ive seen people use a short length of chain about, 3 feet, and a long pry bar, like the type used to move rocks. Hook both ends of the chain to the stake, put the pry bar through, and yank. Leverage is key. :cool:

[MacGyver]

Re: Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

I just came back from camping on frozen ground. A large pair of vise grips pulled the stakes easily. At the first sign of resistance, a slight twisting motion freed 'em right up. It might be a different story with the V-shaped pegs, but I used landscape spikes and the heavy wire pegs that came with the Kodiak.

[Mike]

Re: Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

I just came back from camping on frozen ground. A large pair of vise grips pulled the stakes easily. At the first sign of resistance, a slight twisting motion freed 'em right up. It might be a different story with the V-shaped pegs, but I used landscape spikes and the heavy wire pegs that came with the Kodiak.

Glad to hear the winter weather isn't stopping you

I just got back from four days camping in northern Wisconsin. Mercury got down to -9 F. What I concluded is that the colder the temps, the harder it is to pull stakes. Also, wet frozen ground stick to tent stakes harder than dry dirt

My solution now is to use hardware store nails and just leave them behind - pound them into the dirt instead of pulling them out.

Since the dirt is frozen as hard a plank wood, I can use two penny nails instead of big tent stakes

[James.]

Re: Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

I would have never thought of going smaller.

[Mike]

Re: Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

I would have never thought of going smaller.

That is the great thing about forums. You can really learn a lot from a great variety of experienced folks. You have given me several good ideas on these forums, James

[James.]

Re: Need advice on setting up canvas in frozen ground

That is the great thing about forums. You can really learn a lot from a great variety of experienced folks. You have given me several good ideas on these forums, James

Oh Lord, Please help Mike and keep him safe despite his desire to listen to any ideas I might have.