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**hwc1954** · 09-24-2013, 10:05 PM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

I'm with you on the idea of something on the floor of the tent, but I'm not sure the persian rug is the way to go. For one thing, it's about as heavy and difficult to wrestle into place as anything you could come up with. But, an even bigger concern is that a rug will be really bad if it gets wet or damp. If you want rug, I'd go with some kind of rubber back indoor-outdoor carpet. Walmart sells them. I've got a small one that I put under a barbell.

For the tent, I went with rolls of high density closed cell foam. Each one is 80 x 28 inches and rolls up to a very lightweight roll 28 inches long and maybe 8 to 10 inches diameter. it's available in larger widths -- I think up to 56 inches wide -- so you could order it to fit any size tent. I car camp, so the wider widths weren't going to be as easy to transport as the 28 inchers...

Another great option is closed cell foam tiles that go together like a jigsaw puzzle. I think you can get then in 2 foot square pieces in various thicknesses. 1/2 inch would be fantastic in a tent.

Personally, I would want a tent that is 100% weather resistant. I just don't think the Coleman cabin tents (and comparable brands) stand up to any rain or wind. Seems to me that should be "job one" for a good tent.

REI has the Marmot Limestone 6P on sale for $330. It's 10 x 10 square and much better tent than the Coleman. You could pitch it by yourself in 15 minutes -- although a little assist from your wife would make it little easier. There are similar 8-man tents if you need it a little bigger. I like the looks of the REI Kingdom 8, although I'm sure how easy it would be for one person to pitch. North Face and Sierra Designs both make really nice 8-man tents, too.

If you want that "screen porch" feeling at a camp site, get a real tent, even if it's a little smaller, and then a screen shelter to put over the picnic table. You get the nice screen room, but you have real weather protection in the tent for an all-night rain storm.

**svanarts** · 09-24-2013, 11:18 PM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

I understand what you're saying about the Coleman instant tent. If we were subject to any kind of storms in my part of the country I'd probably go with a Eureka Headquarters tent. But our weather here is pretty mild. We rarely get thunderstorms. I'm not likely to be camping during our thunderstorm season (Apr-June). So all that to say that all this tent will really do for us is give us privacy, plenty of room to stretch, and keep the bugs off. I actually already have an instant screen room and it works really good.

And my whole point with the Persian carpet is to make it not look so much like camping. I've carried the rug I'm thinking of, a little bulky but not heavy at all. Since we're car camping I won't have to carry it far. I want the tent to be as plush as possible. Another reason why we won't be camping in anything but warm mild weather. I know my wife, it's pointless to try to camp in anything but. Otherwise she just won't want to go. The only thing I really worry about is the wind. We do get wind here.

Besides, we have the back of the van as an out just in case we do get some foul weather and the tent leaks or blows away or something. :-)

I have to confess that I already bought the Coleman 14x10 tent from Amazon for $220. I'm pretty gentle with my gear so I don't expect it to break from putting it up or taking it down. I've seen this tent at Burning Man so I know it can survive at least *some* inclement weather. I'm hoping that most of the stories of bad luck with the Coleman is improper setup. I tend to read and follow instructions. If there are guy lines, they get staked down, wind or not. If the tent collapses or breaks I can always return it and look at either the Eureka or other brands. REI makes good stuff but there are no stores near me and they are a little spendy. Good quality though. I had an REI goretex jacket for 20 years. Never ripped or faded. Good stuff.

**hwc1954** · 09-25-2013, 12:39 AM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

Savanarts:

it took me a while to figure out why the cabin tent approach doesn't work (unless it is very expensive). The Instant Tent, and most cabin style designs, are essentially single wall tents. While they may have a tiny rain fly that covers a bit of ceiling, you are relying on the ceiling, walls, doors, and floor to be 100% waterproof. This includes all of the zippers. And, not just waterproof, but waterproof against rain being driven directly into them. With all of the openings and seams, that is a very tall challenge. Is it possible? Yes, there are some high end mountaineering Everest expedition quality single wall tents that are 100% waterproof. But, they aren't $250 for a 10 x 14 size tent. At the low end, I believe that essentially all of these single wall cabin tents will leak sooner or later (and usually sooner, like the first time you camp in the rain).

Let's say that you get one that's perfect and doesn't leak, miracle of miracles. You still have a problem. The entire tent is made of waterproof coated material that doesn't breath. So as soon as it starts raining and you zip up all those big windows, you are sitting in a sauna with moisture building and building and building in the tent. You can't open any windows to get a little ventilation, because then the rain comes right it.

That's why most good tents today are "two wall tents". They don't even try to make the inside tent waterproof. It's all lightweight breathable fabric or mesh for ventilation. You then put a full rain fly over the tent, when needed. With few doors or windows, it's much easier to make the rain fly 100% waterproof. Because it goes to the ground, it protects even against driving rain. And, there is -- at least in theory -- some ventilation in the air space between the inner and outer tents so moisture inside the tent has some way to escape.

A feature that I really like about the REI Kingdom tents is that you can easily roll up the rainfly on one or both sides for max ventilation and then quickly roll it down if the shower pops up:

http://www.rei.com/media/rr/6d4357b9...cd16504e06.jpg

**Oldcoyote** · 09-25-2013, 03:31 AM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

Why'd you sell the pop-up?

**Moss** · 09-25-2013, 03:48 AM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

Welcome!

The Coleman Instant Tent I would recommend with the rain fly, make sure you order the correct rain fly there are two diffrent sizes. Amazon has a funky way of listing them, some buyers get confused. I never liked the idea of a bed with the pump built in, it guarantees you will be buying a new pump if the bed fails. I've had the same air pump for years, but I've had a few different air mattresses. On the floor I use military surplus army sleeping pads, foam interlocking blocks and a piece of AstroTurf for cover. If travel space is not a problem, I would suggest a real folding table, I bought a "Lifetime" brand table from Wal-Mart, I also use it around the house and garage for other projects, I try to make alot of my camping gear dual purpose. Can't help you on the recliners, I'm a big guy, so I'm very careful about chairs I buy, nervous of catastrophic failure.

A door mat for outside the tent is great to keep dirt inside the tent to a minimum. A dust pan with small hand broom, makes cleaning the tent easy, plus wiping off a table covered in leaves and debris much easier, for a couple bucks it's well worth it.

@hwc1954 with the Coleman Instant Tent with optional rain fly the windows can be left partly down at the top for ventilation. That REI tent is really sweet though! :cool:

**Mike** · 09-25-2013, 04:44 AM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

Your list is starting to look really big and bulky, especially with the flooring. Once you lug all that equipment in and out of the car and spend an hour or more setting up and breaking down camp, the pop-up is going to be very much missed

I would recommend scaling your camping style back towards simplicity OR getting another pop-up

If you go with a tent and want your wife to come with you, get something so she doesn't have to sleep on the ground; either a good quality cot or a BIG air mattress

We tent camp and can get everything including main tent, sceen tent, chairs, stoves, sleeping bags, air mattresses, two adults, one child in a car seat and a full size Lassie collie dog in one Honda Fit with a car top carrier. If I had to carry and set up more stuff than would fit in that car top carrier, I am not sure I would want to go camping as staying home and doing yard work would be less hassle

**NYCgrrl** · 09-25-2013, 07:04 AM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

Hello and welcome svanarts!

Agreeing with Moss' thinking re: the built in air pump. I think the same company makes a bed without a built in pump so if you like that particular brand you're still in luck. I've been using a rechargable Coleman air pump for the last 5-6 years and it's served me well despite being noisy as all get out.
As for the flooring you might find that a plastic outdoor rug will fit better, storage and weather ability wise. I use a 10x10 fold-able model that reduces in size to about 12"x 36". Here's a link to a company with great designs (even Persian:D) :

http://outdoorrugsonly.com/recycled-...Fc-Y4AodNAEA-w

As for a table....the height depends on how you want to use it (eating? next to bed? playing cards? cooking work stand?)so maybe take a look at www.rei.com who happens to be having a sale right now. I also saw an interesting setup at Breezy Brigade on this site.

Tea lamps: check the .................lumens (somebody correct me if I'm using the incorrect lighting term.TIA!) they give off. Easy to do even if ya don't have the spec sheet anymore. Just place the lights in a space with no other light source and attempt any activity you'd like to do in the dark while camping. Could be cooking, reading, whatever. You'll now know if the lamps are useful for your task.

Personally, I like the GCI lounger chair but apparently you either hate it or love it according to it's reviews. I've had no problems with it's overall construction, love the compact size it breaks down to and of course there is the lifetime warranty as a pot sweetener. The weight has never bothered me.

Your princess would enjoy having bungee cords, book binders and/or clothes pins as well

.

**svanarts** · 09-25-2013, 09:31 AM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

Originally posted by Oldcoyote View Post

Why'd you sell the pop-up?

Was really too big for our minivan to tow comfortably. Got to be a lot more maintenance than I wanted to deal with. I found a buyer who fell in love with it and would take much better care of it than I. :-)

**svanarts** · 09-25-2013, 09:49 AM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

Wow, thanks for all the advice. Going back to the pop-up would be nice but it's more maintenance than I want to deal with. And the place we're going to camp in probably 99% of the time with this tent is a nice, grassy (think your front lawn) area near Sacramento. There's not a lot of dust or dirt at this particular camp ground. I'm not too worried about the stormworthiness of the tent. I'm a pilot so I tend to watch the weather with a different eye than most. I probably check it more thoroughly than most since at times my life can depend on it. We don't camp when there is threat of storms. Where I live you can pretty much tell when a day or night will be wet and it usually only confined to the winter months.

"Sacramento has a Mediterranean climate (Köppen Csa), characterized by damp to wet, mild winters and hot, dry summers. The wet season is generally October through April, though there may be a day or two of light rainfall in June or September. The mean annual temperature is 61.0 °F (16.1 °C), with the monthly daily average temperature ranging from 46.2 °F (7.9 °C) in December to 75.2 °F (24.0 °C) in July. Summer heat is often moderated by a sea breeze known as the "delta breeze" which comes through the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta from the San Francisco Bay, and temperatures cool down sharply at night."

Those are some good points about the air bed. What I want is an airbed we don't have to kneel to get on. I have a battery operated air pump anyway so the pump certainly doesn't have to be built in. I just want a big comfortable bed!

As far as set up times you guys may be right but here is what I'm thinking. We would normally drive into town for dinner, we are probably not going to cook onsite so no need for a kitchen set up. Though I can accommodate that with my Colman two burner stove and whatever camp table I end up with. So anyway, setting up and staking the tent: 10 minutes max. Setting up the airbed, start the pump and walk away, 2 minutes to carry it from the car to the tent and start the pump. Toss the sleeping bags from the car into the tent and set them up after the bed inflates; another 2 min or so. Carry the camp rug into the tent and roll it out, 2 min. Set up the chairs, 2 min. Set up the stands and hang the Moroccan lanterns (the tea candles), 5 min. Those are just for romantic atmosphere. I have a Colman propane lantern for real light if I need it. 5 min to set up the instant screen shelter and stake it down.

So... about 30 minutes or so? It took slightly longer to set up the popup tent and we actually will have more room in the big tent than in the popup. I figure 45 minutes to break it all down.

I do appreciate all the suggestions! I'm going to check into everything. Except the tent, too late, already bought it! :D

**svanarts** · 09-25-2013, 09:52 AM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

Originally posted by Mike View Post

Your list is starting to look really big and bulky, especially with the flooring. Once you lug all that equipment in and out of the car and spend an hour or more setting up and breaking down camp, the pop-up is going to be very much missed

I would recommend scaling your camping style back towards simplicity OR getting another pop-up

If you go with a tent and want your wife to come with you, get something so she doesn't have to sleep on the ground; either a good quality cot or a BIG air mattress

We tent camp and can get everything including main tent, sceen tent, chairs, stoves, sleeping bags, air mattresses, two adults, one child in a car seat and a full size Lassie collie dog in one Honda Fit with a car top carrier. If I had to carry and set up more stuff than would fit in that car top carrier, I am not sure I would want to go camping as staying home and doing yard work would be less hassle

Oh, I forgot to say that when we camp we take the Toyota Sienna. I usually remove the two center seats and leave in the two back seats. We can store a lot inside the van that way and we still have the roof rack.

**tplife** · 09-25-2013, 11:08 AM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

Your gear list is a WalMart store's dream - cheap, low end merchandise like Coleman tents and houseguest air mattresses that will soon be in the back of the store, where the Sanitainers are lined up. Central California includes the Sierra foothills where we hunt, this time of year it is already below freezing late at night - and if a sprinkle comes by, it's freezing rain. Wind can kick up without warning and blow all night, rippling the cheap tent while you wonder why your air mattress never feels warm, and why you sold your camper. Within a season or two, your gear is molding in the garage, and finally, the "garage sale" sign goes up and you get pennies back on your investment. Worse yet, you're not out breathing the fresh air in the countryside. Tent camping has little in common with popup camping, which you'll quickly discover.
Do yourself a favor like suggested above, buy a "real" tent, no larger than 10X10, that has wind and rain integrity, a lifetime warranty, you can set up alone, has double wall polyester/nylon construction (or Kodiak/Springbar brand if you're a canvas fan), anodized aluminum poles, full coverage rainflies, color coded setup, clip/sleeve attachments, and mesh to keep condensation away. Invest in ThermaRest, MegaMat, REI, or whoever's knockoff versions of thick self-inflating sleeping pads. Buy a Coleman stove, big white gas model, or propane, and a white gas lantern, or propane version, so you can see at night.
These tents won't limit you to one spot on the campsite due to size, won't collapse under wind and rain from too much size and too few poles, won't require a baseball team to set up without falling over, will shed wind and rain so you can sleep dry and comfortably. Sleeping pads will be 5.0 R-value, thermo neutral, and won't suck the warmth out of you while you sleep in even mild weather like a cot or air mattress (0.75 R-value). Coleman stoves will mean quickly prepared meals and no trying to get wet wood to coals or scrubbing blackened pots of burned food. A classic Coleman lantern will work from a soft glow to a food-prep shine, and they sell reflectors to focus the light to one area and tripods to move them around with without touching a tree. They produce some heat too and the propane model can be brought into the tent at night to warm it up while everybody changes and settles in for the night. The rest of your gear is generic stuff everybody might consider to bring, and they are good ideas. I use a Roll-A-Table, but my next one will be the photo below, strong, lightweight and quite sturdy. You will be able to go and have fun with the camping gear you're considering, in the warmest summer months, banning any inclement weather or wind. But tent camping is unpredictable, as you will quickly learn, and you are at the mercy of the elements, outside 24/7, giving off body heat, getting hungry, listening to twigs snap, and hoping everybody else in your group will want to go anytime again soon. With some extra care in your gear selection, I think they will!

**svanarts** · 09-25-2013, 11:57 AM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

I appreciate the advice but remember, this is car camping. We won't be weathering storms in the tent. We're not going hunting, or backpacking, in fact we don't have to go at all. This is just for nice leisurely weekends camping at a local resort. I want it big and comfortable and bug free. I'm not new to camping. When I go on fly outs to the back country with my friends I bring a very different set of equipment. But for car camping with my princess sparkle pony, I think the big (not-so-cheap-to-me) tent should do okay.

I guess I need to be more clear on where we'll be camping 99% of the time. Central Valley of California. Very mild climate. Hot in summer, very little rainfall. Some wind but not much over 35 mph in the summer afternoons (delta breezes). Some of you camp in the Sierras so you probably know what the Central Valley is like. Yes, we CAN get thunderstorms here. But we generally know when those are coming and can make plans for other than camping (hotel).

Really, my setup doesn't need to withstand a thunder or snow storm. Plan B is always the back of the mini-van. More than enough room for both of us.

**NYCgrrl** · 09-25-2013, 12:18 PM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

Originally posted by svanarts View Post

Oh, I forgot to say that when we camp we take the Toyota Sienna. I usually remove the two center seats and leave in the two back seats. We can store a lot inside the van that way and we still have the roof rack.

I adore when we rent a Toyota Sienna for camping. Holds a lot of good gear

.
Howevah.
It will NOT hold a child's bike + 4 passengers readily no matter howwww many times ya make me re pack ( 3 repackings was my limit and somehow we lost the bag that held the grilling gear during the kerflooey. GRRRR). And yes. I am the packing stupovisor.....

**Oldcoyote** · 09-25-2013, 06:33 PM

Re: Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

Please make sure your wife doesn't just want a small pop-up. A new wife would cost more than the largest RV.

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Looking for large comfortable tent... and an introduction

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