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  • Camping Batteries...

    Over the last decade or so I have been using a small (35 Amp Hour) Sealed Lead Acid (SLA), absorbed glass mat (AGM) battery to light the tent while camping and it has given me good service.
    https://www.interstatebatteries.com/...s-the-big-deal
    https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/..._glass_mat_agm

    However, as times change additional power consuming wants and need have come up. Accordingly research into light weight Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) batteries has shown them to be likely candidates for replacing the old wheel chair battery for portable power while camping.

    Some LiFeP04 general info (I too am just learning but here are some things that I believe);

    The amp hour range on these batteries can get as large as anyone wants to pay for.

    They are typically lighter in weight than lead acid batteries typically 1/2 to 1/3 of the weight; the case makes a difference here.

    LiFePo4 batteries can be sensitive to temperatures when charging and discharging;... Read the temperature range specifications for your prospective battery VERY carefully!... they should include high and low temperature protection/cut offs.

    They require a BMS (battery management system) to protect the battery from attempted charging at too low & high temperatures, shorts, over charging, over discharging, over current and to help keep the cells charged to the same level (equalized); drop in/stand alone batteries typically include the BMS inside their case.... the quality of the BMS directly affects the quality of the battery. and if the protection features are not there, are improperly set up, or fail your battery my not function well, or possibly at all.

    They are relatively expensive (first cost), however the cost when averaged over the increased life (if treated well) of the battery can make the long term cost lower.
    12 volt 100 amp hour (AH) batteries in a drop in package can run as much as $1000 for a high quality (i.e. Battleborn) drop in LiFePo4 battery. More reasonably priced made in chnia 100 amp hour versions are currently available in the $500 to $575 range.
    Do it/assemble yourself can bring the costs as low as the high $300 range for basic 12 volt 100 AH batteries... (find your own case to put the cells and Battery Management System (BMS) into).

    LiFePo4 batteries are not directly compatible with vehicles for charging. Even though rated at 12 volts The LiFePo4 chemistry needs a higher charging voltage than most vehicles supply to reach peak charge. (this typically means they need a DC to DC charger to be fully charged by vehicles (an extra moderately expensive piece). High charge rates can also be hard on vehicle charging systems (something to be aware of).

    Solar charging depends on the setting of the solar charge controller to achieve the higher voltage; so get a charge controller compatible with LiFePo4 batteries.

    There are a lot of new battery assemblers (some fly by night) opening shop in the U.S.A. these sometimes assemble their own batteries but mostly just order their batteries assembled or rebadged to their specifications in china price and quality vary; Luck is operational here; since costs can be cut by using lower quality cases, assembly, cells, internal wiring and of course the BMS.

    In order to help prevent dissatisfaction I looked hard at various disassembly videos on the web and My number one resource has been the DIY Solar power Forum;
    https://diysolarforum.com/

    I changed my initial battery purchase because no BMS and internal construction information was available.

    As I learn more I will try to post information here;

    should receive my new 100 AH today!...

    Next project looking for a charger...

    Enjoy!

    EDIT: here is a white paper from BattleBorn batteries on low temperature use
    https://battlebornbatteries.com/lead...e-paper-study/
    Last edited by Happy Joe; 04-30-2021, 09:30 AM. Reason: Added white paper
    2006 Jeep Rubicon, TJ; 4.11 gears, 31" tires, 4:1 transfer case, lockers in both axles
    For DD & "civilized" camping; 2003 Ford explorer sport, 4wd; ARB & torsen diffs, 4.10 gears, 32" MTs.
    Ground tents work best for me, so far.
    Experience along with properly set up 4WD will get you to & through places (on existing, approved 4WD trails) that 4WD, alone, can't get to.

  • #2
    Re: Camping Batteries...

    I see that I forgot the depth of discharge advantage to LifePo4 batteries; they can typically be discharged to 20% charge, i.e you can use 80 amp hours out of the 100 amp hour battery.
    Lead acid on the other hand is not recommended to be discharged below 50%; you should only use 50 amp hours out of the 100 amp hours before recharging.

    Sulfation of lead acid batteries; Lead acid batteries subjected to storage at a partial charge can undergo sulfation of the plates (formation of lead sulfate crystals on the plates). This decreases the available plate area and the capacity of the battery. Sulfation becomes worse faster in partially discharged batteries. To keep your Lead based batteries healthier longer use a battery maintainer or small trickle charger to keep them at peak charge during storage/off season nonuse.

    LiFePo4 batteries actually prefer to be stored partially charged.

    More later...

    Enjoy!

    Edit; here is a critique discussion on the battle born white paper mentione in the post before this one...
    It did not get a favorable long term response.
    https://diysolarforum.com/threads/ba...results.13473/

    Enjoy
    Last edited by Happy Joe; 04-30-2021, 10:08 AM. Reason: added a link to critique on the BB whitepaper
    2006 Jeep Rubicon, TJ; 4.11 gears, 31" tires, 4:1 transfer case, lockers in both axles
    For DD & "civilized" camping; 2003 Ford explorer sport, 4wd; ARB & torsen diffs, 4.10 gears, 32" MTs.
    Ground tents work best for me, so far.
    Experience along with properly set up 4WD will get you to & through places (on existing, approved 4WD trails) that 4WD, alone, can't get to.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Camping Batteries...

      I'm getting ready to order my agm battery and saw this:
      https://www.vmaxtanks.com/LFPU1-1230...ery_p_237.html

      30ah for $249.99
      “One could not be a successful scientist without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of scientists, a goodly number of scientists are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.” - James D. Watson

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Camping Batteries...

        I believe that the last 35 AH battery (agm that I bought was on the order of $65... even if a person purchased two it would be cheaper for similar total amp hour performance to the lithium...

        LiFePo4 is batteries are initially expensive any way that you look at them;

        ... Just shelled out $99 for a 10 amp charger that is supposed to be compatible.
        Haven't decided on a DC-DC charger (to charge from the vehicle9Likley price $108 to $170)
        Or a MPPT solar controller

        My 100 AH LiFePo4 battery came (shipping was $35 and it arrived 3 days after I ordered).
        Packaging was excellent.
        the outer construction and appearance are as pictured...
        connected it to an inverter and it powers lights just fine.
        After I get the charger I will top off the charge and connect the camping fridge for a run time trial.

        The 100 AH battery itself is HUGE, when compared to my little SLA, AGM 35 AH but actually weighs a similar amount(@~22 advertised pounds about 3 pounds more).
        https://rebelbatteries.com/product/l...phate-battery/

        Enjoy!
        Last edited by Happy Joe; 05-02-2021, 09:57 AM.
        2006 Jeep Rubicon, TJ; 4.11 gears, 31" tires, 4:1 transfer case, lockers in both axles
        For DD & "civilized" camping; 2003 Ford explorer sport, 4wd; ARB & torsen diffs, 4.10 gears, 32" MTs.
        Ground tents work best for me, so far.
        Experience along with properly set up 4WD will get you to & through places (on existing, approved 4WD trails) that 4WD, alone, can't get to.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Camping Batteries...

          Lithium must be the way most people are going these days. I have an $800 bank of Powersonic SLAs up on Craigslist for $350 and haven't had a single bite, not even some clown with a $100 lowball offer. It's a really nice setup and I hate to let 'em go - I just can't handle the weight anymore.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Camping Batteries...

            I hear you; One reason that I have been living with the little tent battery is the weight, I can one hand it during loading and unloading....
            When I started considering a bigger (heavier) battery for the fridge I went so far as to get a large wheeled luggage hand truck so that I could move a large lead beast from the vehicle to the tent.

            size comparison;
            Click image for larger version

Name:	sizes 100 AH vs 35 AH 50 DSCF0323.jpg
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            If this battery is not powerful enough I will likely assemble one as it looks simple enough however the bulk/volume needed by the battery is getting large enough to impact my loading/vehicle packing.

            ...can't have everything though...

            Enjoy!
            Last edited by Happy Joe; 05-03-2021, 07:15 AM. Reason: added pic
            2006 Jeep Rubicon, TJ; 4.11 gears, 31" tires, 4:1 transfer case, lockers in both axles
            For DD & "civilized" camping; 2003 Ford explorer sport, 4wd; ARB & torsen diffs, 4.10 gears, 32" MTs.
            Ground tents work best for me, so far.
            Experience along with properly set up 4WD will get you to & through places (on existing, approved 4WD trails) that 4WD, alone, can't get to.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Camping Batteries...

              I'm hearing more and more folks on the rv sites moving towards lithium. Their biggest concerns seem to be with the converter/chargers and making sure on gets the right voltages for the battery.

              I just ordered my new agm. I'll see how it holds up the next couple months and then order a couple for the trailer.

              I just have to get out and go camping.
              “One could not be a successful scientist without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of scientists, a goodly number of scientists are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.” - James D. Watson

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Camping Batteries...

                I use these....2 tied together if neededClick image for larger version

Name:	2nd battery 30ah.jpg
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ID:	71253
                Thrift store tent
                Marmot Tungsten 4p

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Camping Batteries...

                  We have 2-200 amp hour lithium batteries with 3 -100 watt solar panels and a 2000 watt inverter. We are very happy with this system. It is plenty of power for our use and the solar recovery is much better then we expected. We also have a 12 volt compressor fridge. We love boon-docking in this rig.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Camping Batteries...

                    Originally posted by action View Post
                    I use these....2 tied together if needed
                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]6798[/ATTACH]
                    Those appear to be lithium phosphate batteries, How do you like them?...Any thing unexpected; good or bad?

                    https://ampedoutdoors.com/collections/lifepo4-battery

                    Do you use them for fishing, to power your campsite/both ?
                    How do you charge them?

                    I'm new to this whole LiFePo4 thing.

                    Thanx! in advance.

                    Enjoy!

                    Edit; I did figure out, this weekend, that many brands of LiFePo4 batteries are NOT recommended for engine starting applications.
                    and that the expected life (in discharge/recharge cycles) seems to be related to depth of discharge.
                    For the 100AH reBel;
                    ~2000 cycles at 100% discharge.
                    ~3500 cycles at 80% discharge
                    ~6500 cycles at 50% discharge... which is, very roughly, equivalent to about 650 years, or more, if I go camping 10 times per year and just run lights tunes and phone (no fridge), Heh!

                    Enjoy!
                    Last edited by Happy Joe; 05-03-2021, 07:58 AM. Reason: added engine starting info.
                    2006 Jeep Rubicon, TJ; 4.11 gears, 31" tires, 4:1 transfer case, lockers in both axles
                    For DD & "civilized" camping; 2003 Ford explorer sport, 4wd; ARB & torsen diffs, 4.10 gears, 32" MTs.
                    Ground tents work best for me, so far.
                    Experience along with properly set up 4WD will get you to & through places (on existing, approved 4WD trails) that 4WD, alone, can't get to.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Camping Batteries...

                      They have been good so far...I use them for my trolling motor for my kayak.......I have not ran them down yet and they are very light....I also use a 12ah for my fish finder......
                      Thrift store tent
                      Marmot Tungsten 4p

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Camping Batteries...

                        ... sounds good; I have used a 35 AH lead acid to run 110 volt LED tent lights and music (via a tiny inverter). I hope the 100 AH will let me run a portable fridge; although even if that doesn't work out the large capacity will let me run lights and tunes much longer without needing to bring the solar panels to recharge.

                        I went with a NOCO Genius 10, 110 volt, 10 amp charger for 6 & 12 volt batteries...to start off with (came from Amazon late yesterday).. It was the recharger recommended on the reBel site and others have used it successfully for LiFepo4, according to the web.

                        Enjoy!
                        Last edited by Happy Joe; 05-22-2021, 08:39 AM.
                        2006 Jeep Rubicon, TJ; 4.11 gears, 31" tires, 4:1 transfer case, lockers in both axles
                        For DD & "civilized" camping; 2003 Ford explorer sport, 4wd; ARB & torsen diffs, 4.10 gears, 32" MTs.
                        Ground tents work best for me, so far.
                        Experience along with properly set up 4WD will get you to & through places (on existing, approved 4WD trails) that 4WD, alone, can't get to.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Camping Batteries...

                          I got my vmax battery and installed it. It's currently charging.

                          When I took out my optima battery, I found that the thieves blew one of the spiral cells - hence why it was dead.
                          “One could not be a successful scientist without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of scientists, a goodly number of scientists are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.” - James D. Watson

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Camping Batteries...

                            ...At least you are going to be ready for camping this year.
                            Having portable electrical power makes camp life much easier & enjoyable, IMO.

                            Enjoy!
                            2006 Jeep Rubicon, TJ; 4.11 gears, 31" tires, 4:1 transfer case, lockers in both axles
                            For DD & "civilized" camping; 2003 Ford explorer sport, 4wd; ARB & torsen diffs, 4.10 gears, 32" MTs.
                            Ground tents work best for me, so far.
                            Experience along with properly set up 4WD will get you to & through places (on existing, approved 4WD trails) that 4WD, alone, can't get to.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Camping Batteries...

                              Originally posted by Happy Joe View Post
                              ...At least you are going to be ready for camping this year.
                              Having portable electrical power makes camp life much easier & enjoyable, IMO.

                              Enjoy!
                              Well, the main thin I use it for is the water pump. I can handle lanterns and such, but I don't like being without my toilet and sink.
                              “One could not be a successful scientist without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of scientists, a goodly number of scientists are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.” - James D. Watson

                              Comment

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