Power failure tomorrow... time for some house camping...

[Happy Joe]

Saw a note on the door yesterday; they (you know...THEM), the power company, will be replacing some main lines tomorrow... so its time to go through the camping goodies and make sure the batteries are charged (lighting battery, e-book reader, blue-tooth speaker and spare phone (on which the tunes reside), the fuel (propane) is full and the stove is ready.
...need to dig the larger propane heater out of storage (forecast says: highs in the 30s with chance of flurries tomorrow).
since power is only going (hopefully) to be out for 6 hours or so I don't figure that I will need to fire up the genny or break out the 12 volt fridge...
The home stove is electric so the propane camping stove will get a little use...

...Need to remember to make a pot of coffee first thing tomorrow and fill a thermos...

Don't have a clue what my non-camping neighbors will do...

Enjoy!

[a65hoosier]

Re: Power failure tomorrow... time for some house camping...

We used to have power outages quite often when we first moved in our new house. We would pull out the camping gear, cook/lighting with the Coleman stuff, candles (I know...it was 20-25 years ago---no LEDs really) and sleep in the family room with the fireplace going (it seemed power went out more in the winter---I never really worried much about the freezer/frig stuff going bad in the day or two power was off since it could just go in a cooler outside). I remember it as being a great time "camping indoors"...and I think the spouse would agree.

Now I have all sorts of gear, modern batteries for power/solar recharge ability, fuel, food preps, water purifying, etc. that we could go a 2 months or more (idk...maybe more) without power and live quite decently (I live next to woods and large water supply)-------> and I haven't lost power for more than a few minutes in the last 20 years!!!

I do kinda miss not being able to go into the survivor mode when the power went out...as if just to be able to say "Look!!! all this stuff is not just for camping!!!!"

[Happy Joe]

Re: Power failure tomorrow... time for some house camping...

Well, It snowed yesterday so the power company rescheduled the maintenance outage for Monday...they have laid out wire on the ground (in preparation for raising it onto the poles, I guess) wish they would bury it instead..

We still occasionally have small power outages the last one about 2 weeks ago was about 20 minutes.... might be at east part of the reason for the line maintenance...

I used to enjoy power outages more when I was younger as it gave the neighbors an excuse to ask why I had lights and no one else did...still have the oil lamps, though today they mostly get used as air purifiers when friends who smoke drop by.

After the power company gets things straightened out I figure on going through the stuff and doing an inventory/upgrade/ restock sequence as well as getting rid of the old things that seemed like a good idea at the time but didn't work as well as expected in preparation for this next years upgrades...I especially need to load test the camping battery as it should be nearing the end of its life cycle (I'm guessing 5 or 6 years). If it needs replacement I'm torn between just getting another Lead acid deep discharge or going with one of the newer lithium based batteries.

Enjoy!

[MacGyver]

Re: Power failure tomorrow... time for some house camping...

Yep - having a ton of camping gear to use during power outages is pretty cool. And, with everything else in the neighborhood dark, I do like to make a point of making sure people on the street can see the lit up house - without the sound of a backup generator running. I've got enough deep cycles and SLAs to easily handle a two or three days without power and, as long as it's sunny, enough solar to keep it going for another day or two. After that, it's kick in the honda to top it all off.

... I'm torn between just getting another Lead acid deep discharge or going with one of the newer lithium based batteries.

If you have the wallet for the batteries and a compatible charger I would definitely go lithium. The ability to run them down to almost nothing without damaging them is a major plus when you're faced with the need for extended run times.

[Happy Joe]

Re: Power failure tomorrow... time for some house camping...

If you have the wallet for the batteries and a compatible charger I would definitely go lithium. The ability to run them down to almost nothing without damaging them is a major plus when you're faced with the need for extended run times.

I agree...
The money for the battery and charger is very doable (painless); however the fact that is a less compatible technology (with respect to recharging has me leery.
Lead acid (a very mature technology) charges quickly and easily at most temperatures from basically anything home charger vehicle solar etc and is, pretty much compatible with cheap inverters etc.

The cost enters in to the decision though;
Current 12 volt camping setup, good for up to a week of camping (myself) without recharging and can be recharged from either solar or the vehicle;
35 amp hour battery ~$60
chinese 80 watt 12 to 110 volt inverter ~ 14 dollars (really $0 since I have it and a spare)
modification cost $10 - $15 (anaing $0 since I ave it and a spare).
solar controller < $30 (again $0 since I have it already)
High tech lead acid charger (more than is necessary ) ~ $60 and it is compatible with the vehicle batteries. (again $0 since I have it)

Lithium tech (on sale); I hear cautions about charging at low temperatures...
32 amp hour battery ~$350... and it might need a seperate, high quality battery management system $unknown)
Inverter (probably more but I will say $14 just for calculation).
modification cost $10 - $15... just for calculation
solar controller $27.55... $30 (Renolgy)
High tech recharger (more than is necessary ) ~ $200 (cheapest that I could find on amazon and it is NOT compatible with the vehicle batteries). and it will take longer to charge the battery.

so for, at leas, an additional ~$430 , and additional hassle I can say that I have lithium power with really little or no additional benefits ... looks like LI-ion for camping is not a great decision for me (others with different camping styles might be different).

There are greater differences for going to a larger (100 amp hour) lithium battery, making it even less attractive. Note: a 100 amp hour system would be what i would use if I were to bring the 12 volt refrigerator.


I think that I will stay old tech (lead acid through at least one more $50 - to $80, small, light weight, 35 AH, deep discharge, battery (and 6 + years of low hassle usage).

Enjoy!
(Thanks! for giving me the incentive to do a quick and dirty buy/or not calculation)

[MacGyver]

Re: Power failure tomorrow... time for some house camping...

It's my own fault for taking all the gizmos that I do, but lugging heavy lead is getting old. Or maybe it's just that I'm getting old. If I didn't have medical issues popping up along with a truck that has a firm grip on my credit card, I'd have a lithium setup. No matter what power I'm using, I'm finding solar to be more of a pain than anything else. I'm either in partially shaded sites where I'm chasing the sun all day long, or in so many trees that it's virtually useless. So that deep discharge ability would really suit me well. The only reason I haven't sold my solar setup yet is because I plan to put it on my canoe where I know it'll come in handy, keeping the deep cycles a bit more pumped up.

Definitely not trying to change your mind - your power requirements are far less than mine - but two things you said jumped out at me. Why would you need a new inverter if you went to lithium? Best I know, 12 volts is 12 volts and an inverter doesn't care where the juice is coming from. And, as far as a charger goes, NOCO Genius make a nice compact 10 amp charger that handles lead and lithium, going for $100 on Amazon ($125 on the NOCO site).

[Happy Joe]

Re: Power failure tomorrow... time for some house camping...

... Maybe I'm a bit paranoid about the (typically fudged) chines specs of cheap imported electronics;have had 2 relatively expensive inverters die on me in the woods (which is why I carry a spare). Even 12 volt lead acid automobile batteries fluctuate in voltage over each charge cycle ...
4.2 volt /Li cell x 3 =12.6 volts likely more at peaks during the charge cycle... It will probably power 12 volt equipment just fine.
When Teslas stop burning to the ground I may get more serious about Li tech; my informal count last year was 3 or 4.

I figure that at least until the Li tech becomes more mature/stable/home builder friendly, across the industry; to get peak performance a charger should have adjustable set points... Considering that a cheap 12 volt lithium 100 amp hour battery is currently running near $900 (on sale) and the (allegedly) better ones are running around $1500 it probably best not to cheap out on a charger, or the Battery Management System, IMO.

When I was seriously considering using the Refrigerator and a 100AH battery lead acid in camp I purchased an light weight luggage hand truck to move the battery around camp..
...I gave up on extensive solar power long ago for the reasons you stated. I snagged a cheap, small, quiet, propane genny to take care of charging the battery for the Fridge (using the current more than adequate battery charger) while saving pollution and not requiring an additional fuel.

The story is that Lithium is cheaper on a per charge basis but since lead acid typically gives me 8+ years of life in automotive applications and I have no idea what I will be doing even 2 years in the future I'll stay with recyclable, no hassle, old, reliable lead... while doing periodic surveys of whether its time to change battery chemistry or not.

Enjoy!

[MacGyver]

Re: Power failure tomorrow... time for some house camping...

I'm not one to jump too quickly into new technology either. A perfect example: Windows operating systems. When Vista came out, people jumped and quickly regretted it. Same thing happened when 8 came out - two pretty much complete failures. Even with 10 there are complaints of incompatabilty with software, not to mention privacy issues. Hell... if it wasn't for the inability to read large drives, I'd still be running XP, if not 2000.

But, as far as lithium batteries go, I feel they've been around long enough to consider buying in - IF it wasn't for the fact that the prices haven't dropped much, if any, for years now. That's the part that irks me most. All the forecasts that I read a couple of years ago predicted somewhere in the neighborhood of a 30-40% drops in cost by 2020. It hasn't happened. You cited Tesla meltdowns as a red flag and I guess that while that is something to ponder, but I suspect that it's what Tesla is trying to get out of their batteries. High performance requires a heavy draw on whatever power source you're using and batteries do have their limits. The Prius fires have all come from wiring harness abrasion issues, not the batteries themselves. And the somewhat publicized Chevy Volt fire was found to stem from the lead-acid battery arcing in a rear end collision test - again, not from the lithium battery.

Again - not trying to get you to change your mind. I'm still lead acid/AGM/SLA myself. Just throwing out some of the information I've come across while looking into (hopefully) an eventual upgrade.

[Happy Joe]

Re: Power failure tomorrow... time for some house camping...

I agree; still waiting for reasonable cost Lithium (or other chemistry) batteries... I head a rumor of an aluminum/alkaline chemistry that initially looked performance competitive with Lithium, haven't heard any thing lately though.

BTW; Load tested the 35 AH, sealed, lead-acid, AGM, camping battery and it looks to be good for another year or 2... at which time I will need to do a more serious check on battery prices and technology.

This spring I will have to replace the Jeep's starting battery (with a sealed AGM lead acid battery. It died last fall... It was optima but died after only 8 years so I will go with a more conventional construction and save a few bucks.

Enjoy!

[Bigdog57]

Re: Power failure tomorrow... time for some house camping...

I did a few days of "house camping" during and after Hurricane Michael. We here in Tallahassee, Fl. only caught the edge of it, but I lost ower for four days when a large tree just off the corner of my property fell. It smashed my front chainlink fence, blocked my driveway and took down the powerline. Neighbors helped clear the tree away - free firewood for them! - and my yard guy rebuilt my fence.
Luckily October temps were moderate, so no heat problems. I have no landline phone, but do have a Smartphone and three USB charger bricks. Two of them got me through the four days without power. My nonelectric camping gear kept me fed, and a couple LED lanterns provided light.
I just got a 100ah Marine battery to make a more robust power supply, and all the bits and pieces for it.
Next hurricane/power outtage I will be even better prepared.

[Happy Joe]

Re: Power failure tomorrow... time for some house camping...

...Got rid of the only tree that was threatening the house a few years ago, along with the tree that was feeding off (regularly plugging) my sewer line.

Keep us updated on the camping vehicle/battery build; always interested n different thoughts in the field...

I see camping gear as not only a source of great relaxation, but also a hedge against the unforeseen; topped off the camping pantry early, with a couple of cans of stew for this corona virus thing; so far its not bad locally though... don't really understand why so many are panicking.

Enjoy!