Kelty Noah vs. standard "blue tarp"?

[Shortpants]

I have an assortment of polyethylene tarps that usually come camping with us, everything from a 6'x8' to a 20'x30' to fit various sites and configurations and they have ALWAYS been used in one capacity or another. I can only think of ONE trip that we didn't use a tarp at all because it was a last-minute, minimal trip of only a couple nights. I have been debating about swapping some of the larger poly tarps for the Kelty Noah for packing size and weight considerations, as well as ease of pitching. Thoughts, input or experiences? Not really sure if it is worth the investment for us since we are car campers at mostly state parks and the like, and have a minivan with a roof rack and bag to transport gear, so it's not really like the tarps (folded flat) take up THAT much space, but me trying to help hubby wrangle a really large poly tarp is downright comedic sometimes, wondering if the polyester would be enough of a weight difference to help make pitching easier, or if once you get to a certain size it's just plain cumbersome, no matter the material. Kelty Noah (or another polyester tarp brand that you might recommend) or good `ol Home Depot blue tarp... what say you? TIA!

[terasec]

Re: Kelty Noah vs. standard "blue tarp"?

dont know about kelty noah,
but since buying an equinox 10'x10' tarp for $30 i wont go back to poly tarps
packs small and light and works great,
I use the tarp for hiking/camping, so small and light is major selling point
if the price is right highly recommend nylon type tarps over poly

[MacGyver]

Re: Kelty Noah vs. standard "blue tarp"?

I'll start by saying that "good 'ol blue" tarps are crap in my book. They're thin and really prone to UV degradation, so they break down fairly quickly. I also think the blue color has something to do with it. The darker the tarp, the more sun they absorb, furthering the UV problem. For poly tarps, I went to heavy duty, 12 mil, silver/gray or tan. I have gray tarps that are over ten years old and they're still kicking. But I now own two nylons - a 12x14 from Oware and a 13x20 Aquaquest and, so far, I love 'em. But I don't see me getting rid of my polys just yet. I'm not convinced of the durability of nylon just yet, maybe only because I'm using bigger tarps that are more subject to stress from wind and rain. If I'm out on a large group trip and there's a chance for rain, I'm sticking with my 20x30 or 18x24 poly tarp so I can keep everybody dry and not stuck in their tents and campers. But as long as you're staying with smaller tarps, nylons are great. Like terasec said - they pack small and weigh a lot less.

[Shortpants]

Re: Kelty Noah vs. standard "blue tarp"?

Thank you terasec for your experience and the heads up on the equinox brand, I took a look and they do seem to come in at a better price point than the Kelty, for sure.

I'll start by saying that "good 'ol blue" tarps are crap in my book.

I wholeheartedly agree MacGyver, the blue tarps disintegrate and are crap, it's just what I think of when I think poly tarp. I too get the heavy duty silver/tan or the mid-weight brown/green for my poly tarps, my huge 20'x30' is the heavy duty silver and it is going on 8 years old, so can totally attest to the longevity of the non-blue poly tarps.

I'm thinking maybe a better plan is to get a couple smaller nylon ones for testing purposes before going whole hog and replacing one of the bigger ones that have served us so well. If the smaller ones do well, then we'll see... Like I said, it's not like I really have an issue with the poly ones (other than poor hubby doing most of the heavy listing to get it hung), just considering options that might be easier/better.

Thanks again! I appreciate the personal experiences before pulling the trigger and finding out it's not all I cracked it up to be in my head.

[a65hoosier]

Re: Kelty Noah vs. standard "blue tarp"?

Ya'll knew I would eventually pipe up on this topic since I am a Noah/cat cut tarp fan.....so here is my cheerleader post (with some real live experience thrown in)!

I have now used the Kelty Noah's for over 6 years. I have them in 12, 16 (2 of this size), and 20 ft sizes. One of them goes out with me basically on every car camping trip (usually excluding deep winter trips-that's a different animal). A couple of the older and more used ones are still going strong after that amount of time (patched burn holes and all). I love them...and picked up a heavily discounted 16 foot Noah this past summer as a back up to my well used 16 footer (my favorite size overall for car camping due to size/weight/coverage/ease of pitch).

Before switching to the catenary cut Noah, I used the standard rectangle/square polyethylene tarps with what I found where weak grommet points. They took a long time to pitch/get taut, requiring ridgelines, multiple poles/lines, were a pain to take down/fold, heavy, and a space hog in the vehicle.

Compare fabric types in the tarp you are researching to purchase. The Noah's are made of waterproofed polyester fabric. Polyester, while not as "strong" in tear strength as nylon, nor as lightweight, does offer better sag resistance when wet (it doesn't stretch nearly as much as nylon) and it is much more UV resistant. My main 2 purposes for a tarp for car camping is rain protection and prolonged weekend shade from the sun and I felt, for my camping style and where I would be using a tarp that polyester was a better fabric long term. If I was backpacking, a nylon tarp, with it's lighter weight and stronger fabric would be a better choice. As MacGyver and terasec said...nylon rectangle or square tarps provide a great and easy way to get into camping tarps and experiment what works best for you (or even during certain trips/locations). Any nylon or polyester tarp is generally better than a poly overall.

Check the number of tie out points along the edges of the tarp and how well they are stitched in for strength. On a 12/16/20 foot square tarp, that is 144/256/400 sq feet of fabric that must be held up, supported, kept taut to prevent flapping, yet tied down securely to the ground. Easy when you have light winds...add in the normal summer afternoon thunderstorm, and the stresses on the tie down points increase greatly and so does your chance of having a large kite. I have used every tie out point at some point on the Noah and I have never had a failure, either at the main grommet pole corners or along any tie outs along the edges. Zero. Through every type of weather and storm. Easily 70 nights on the 16. They are very strongly stitched.

Ease of set up and the ability to get a taut pitch. I use 2 adj poles and a total of 6 guy outs/stake points for every size Noah I have in my basic flying diamond tarp set up. If my camping areas had better situated trees, I could skip the 2 poles, use the trees to tie off to and really only need 2 guy outs/stake points, one for each of tarp "wings". I find it is easier for me to get a taut pitch because of the catenary cut of the Noah. Yes, the gently inward cat cuts along the sides does reduce sq ft coverage size slightly, but I feel that is off set by the quickness I can achieve and more importantly, maintain a tight pitch as conditions change while I am out there camping. You can always fiddle with something while at camp to adjust it as the wind kicks up or it starts to rain....but how well will it do (and how much will you worry) if the conditions change for the worst while you are not at the campsite?

Negatives? Yes, the above coverage reduction because of the cat cut and the set-up or pitching styles in a cat cut tarp like the Noah are rather limited. Sure, they show various pitches on YouTube and you can use them with the Noah (I have), but it's best to set it up as it is usually shown in most pics...in the flying diamond pattern (like me sitting under a wing in my avatar or car camping in my sig). This particular pitch really allows the benefits I described above of the cat cut to shine...esp in windier weather where the diamond set-up equals tautness equals a quiet tarp. For my style of camping, where I generally know the more open type of campsite I'll encounter, I can almost always find room on the site for either the 12 or 16 footer. I know I can set it up using the flying diamond style (the the 20 footer is a beast size wise...and usually an errant tree or just an overall small site blocks my ability to easily use it).

Good luck on your search for a tarp that works for you. No matter the tarp you ultimately select...it always gets easier/faster to pitch it/drop it the more times you do it. I think it is a very worthy camp gear investment which will provide years of rain/sun protection (not to mention falling stuff-bird droppings, sap, tree debris, etc. lol). I rank my tarp as one of those must take items. It's usually the first thing I set up and usually the last thing I take down on every camp trip. I think you will enjoy the benefits also. shortpants - let us know what you selected and how it's working out from time to time as you hone in on your tarp set-up!

[MacGyver]

Re: Kelty Noah vs. standard "blue tarp"?

Ya'll knew I would eventually pipe up on this topic since I am a Noah/cat cut tarp fan.....

Nope - totally surprised me.
Never expected it.
Didn't think you'd bother.

[Karla "with a k"]

Re: Kelty Noah vs. standard "blue tarp"?

REI has the 12X12 on sale right now.

https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/produ...4aAo_LEALw_wcB

[Shortpants]

Re: Kelty Noah vs. standard "blue tarp"?

Thank you a65hoosier! Excellent practical experience post, I really appreciate it all the info! My experience thus far has only been with the rectangular poly tarps, so I did wonder about the cat cut and how that might change how we use the tarp setup currently. Our main tent is a large cabin style due to hubby being 6'6" and the dome tents are just too low for him to be comfortable and enjoy camping. Thusly, I worry about the waterproof-ness of the tent in heavy rains and usually string up a ridgeline rectangular tarp over the top when we are expecting anything more than a drizzle. We also usually put a second one up to cover the table/cooking area for shade and rain protection. Most of our sites are in the woods, so we pretty much always have trees to tie off to, and I have an assortment of extendable poles already, so I'm thinking we'd be well-served by a switch to the Kelty or nylon tarp system as usually no less than 2-3 tarps are put up on our camping ventures. I am one of those "prep for the worst, hope for the best" people and would rather take the time to set up protection for us BEFORE we really need it.

Thank you Karla! That is a good deal on the 12x12, might have to spring for that one first to test it out before jumping right to the 20x20. Although now that I am at the REI garage, I am shopping tents... AGAIN! Could be dangerous. hahaha! Hubby had the audacity to suggest getting rid of some of our older, smaller tents.... `scuse me, what?!?! Ummmm, that's a hard NO! LOL! Thanks again for the heads up!

[a65hoosier]

Re: Kelty Noah vs. standard "blue tarp"?

REI has the 12X12 on sale right now.

https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/produ...4aAo_LEALw_wcB

That is a good price on the Noah 12. Sierra Trading Post also has them for $50.

Both noted above are an older version (which I have a couple) with the bronze main color/orange trim. I actually prefer this version over the new version which is a green/lime trim. The newer version has increased thickness of waterproof coating over the older version (which is good, but I've never had the old version "wet out" and leak thru)...but I prefer the older version's use of grommets at the corners. The new version uses a ring at the corners now. No biggie, but when I bring that particular tarp (it's the 20 footer), I have to put a large washer over my pole tips to keep the ring/tarp corner from sliding down the pole. Grommets are a bit easier.

[MacGyver]

Re: Kelty Noah vs. standard "blue tarp"?

Grommets are definitely easier to deal with. The only benefit I see to the loops and/or rings on a tarp is that they're more readily repaired in the event of a failure. That's one of the reasons I keep Kevlar thread and some large needles in my kit. If a loop on a tarp or my tent somehow rips, I can cannibalize a bit of ratchet strap to make a new one.

[MacGyver]

Re: Kelty Noah vs. standard "blue tarp"?

Hubby had the audacity to suggest getting rid of some of our older, smaller tents.... `scuse me, what?!?! Ummmm, that's a hard NO! LOL!

Yeah - I've got that same disease. Four tents and a hammock setup that probably will never see the open air again. The worst part is, I still look at tents online at least 3 or 4 times a week.