Liquid Fuel Stove Question

[aiannarelli]

I am new to camping and need some advice. The liquid fuel stoves seem to hold a fair amount of fuel. I have seen some posts that say maybe enough for 10 days of camping. Well my camping would be for only a couple of days and I am concerned about unused fuel. First off, does it go bad? Also, does it leak or spill out of the burners when driving with fuel in the stove tank or do I need to remove the fuel?

Anthony

[MacGyver]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

I've never used a liquid fuel stove but I do know that white gas is pretty much subject to the same degradation as the gas we use in our vehicles. It is a more refined product so I would figure it wouldn't go bad as fast, but I'd still be inclined not to let it sit around for months. Here's an online article on the subject: http://www.backpacker.com/gear/exper...e-fuel-go-bad/

And yes, you should disconnect the fuel bottle when transporting the stove.

[tplife]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

Always empty your stove tank back into the Coleman can when you are done with your trip to prevent any lacquer formation (same goes for their lanterns) from other exposed parts which can damage your generator. Coleman fuel has a long shelf life of at least 5 years, as it's Petroleum Hydrocarbon Naptha and not gasoline - it contains none of the additives and doesn't come out of solution after a month like gas. I also use MSR fuel bottles for transport and storage, but the Coleman steel can is engineered for long-term storage of their fuel. You can get this same information right form Coleman products on their website.

[a65hoosier]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

Hi Anthony and Welcome to the Forum!

I'm going to respectfully (and slightly) disagree with my fellow campers MacGyver and tp (and I guess Coleman also) on this topic based on my experience.

I'm a regular Coleman fuel stove and lantern user and have been for many years.

Coleman fuel does not contain the additives that one finds in automobile unleaded gasoline and does not degrade anywhere near as fast. Although Coleman indicates and sells a "dual fuel" stove, I would never use regular automobile unleaded gasoline as a fuel except in an emergency. The additives in unleaded gasoline have a tendency to clog the stove's generator much more rapidly than when using Coleman fuel. Unleaded fuel also breaks down much much faster in storage than Coleman fuel.

I also generally never empty my stove or lantern fuel tanks in between camp trips and have never had a problem with the fuel gumming up or getting the stove/lantern to light up and run fine. If you were going to put the stove/lantern up in storage for a long time, then emptying the tank would be beneficial. My time frame between uses may be as much as 6 months or more depending on when I last used a particular stove or lantern (I have 3 different fuel stoves and 8+ lanterns to choose from for any trip).

As far as transporting and/or storage of a stove with a half tank of fuel? Just make sure the tank's fuel cap is tightened properly and the tank's on/off knob is turned to off. Put the tank back inside the stove's case and transport away. This is assuming that your stove is properly maintained and all cap seals/check valves/etc are functioning properly. I usually leave it stored just like that (with whatever fuel remains in the tank). I then just "top the tank off" when I am prepping to use that stove again for a camping trip. All my stuff up on the gear shelves currently has some fuel remaining in the tank as I sit here and type. Never had a problem, but then again, everything gets used at least once a year.

[tplife]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

a65Hoosier has had better luck than we have, I've had to buy more than one generator due to lacquer formation, and Coleman explains why at their website:

http://www.coleman.com/carecleaning/

After cleaning, proper storage of your Coleman® stove is also important.

Put it into a plastic bag, sealing with a twist tie to prevent spiders or other insects from crawling in the unit, which can block the fuel and airflow.

With a liquid fuel stove, transfer as much fuel as possible out of the fuel tank and back into the fuel can to prevent a lacquer buildup on the tank's fuel tube. Keep in mind that storing a liquid fuel appliance with fuel in the tank can eventually cause a buildup on the fuel tube, which restricts fuel flow to the generator and burner.

When it's time to take out your stove, remember to oil the pump cup on the tank's pump plunger at least twice a year with a light machine oil. This allows the cup to seal against the inside of the pump barrel and insures the pump will work smoothly and push air into the tank properly.

[MacGyver]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

Coleman fuel does not contain the additives that one finds in automobile unleaded gasoline and does not degrade anywhere near as fast.

STILL learning! Thank you! LOL

[Denni2]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

I never empty my stove or lanterns. Is I am reading this I realized the lantern we used on our last trip was handed down from my father, since we rarely use a lantern I think it still may have the fuel in it from when I got it. Dad passed away in 2004 so maybe I should empty the 2 lanterns I inherited from my father since they do not get used often. I don't think dad ever emptied the fuel out either.

I did buy cases to store and transport the lanterns. The stove tank just gets put back in the case as a65hoosier does with cap tight and valve closed. I also keep my cooking utensils and ove gloves. In the stove case to keep things from rattling.

[a65hoosier]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

a65Hoosier has had better luck than we have, I've had to buy more than one generator due to lacquer formation, and Coleman explains why at their website:

http://www.coleman.com/carecleaning/

After cleaning, proper storage of your Coleman® stove is also important.

Put it into a plastic bag, sealing with a twist tie to prevent spiders or other insects from crawling in the unit, which can block the fuel and airflow.

With a liquid fuel stove, transfer as much fuel as possible out of the fuel tank and back into the fuel can to prevent a lacquer buildup on the tank's fuel tube. Keep in mind that storing a liquid fuel appliance with fuel in the tank can eventually cause a buildup on the fuel tube, which restricts fuel flow to the generator and burner.

When it's time to take out your stove, remember to oil the pump cup on the tank's pump plunger at least twice a year with a light machine oil. This allows the cup to seal against the inside of the pump barrel and insures the pump will work smoothly and push air into the tank properly.

hehe...tp - you listen to Coleman when it comes to dumping the fuel, but disagree with them when they say to leave the water in their coolers. lolol. Just kidding around man!

I base my opinion and advice on the following: I've taken apart more stoves and lanterns for restoration and maintenance than I care to count. It seems once family/friends know you work on these things, you end up having them show up on your doorstep. lol.

There are essentially 4 components touching fuel in a stove/lantern. The fuel tank itself, the fuel pickup tube, fuel flow valve, and the generator where the liquid fuel is vaporized by heat and fed to the burners/mantles. Additionally, the check valve ball may also be impacted by fuel.

I've also found that it is next to impossible to completely get all of the fuel out of a stove and/or lantern just by dumping the fuel tank.

Unless you can completely run the fuel out by using it...some residual fuel always remains in those components I listed above. This residual fuel can, over time, clog both the fuel pickup tube and in some cases cause the little ball in the check valve to stick (not a safe situation). In the case of the pickup tube, fuel can lacquer and plug the small holes in the tube (unless you unscrew the pickup tube out of the tank, you never see the pickup tube or the holes--but they open and close as you turn the fuel knob from off to on to full on). Problems in the pickup tube will result in a poor running or even not running device.

I've not experienced many problems with valves becoming gummed up due to fuel residue.

The generator will always retain a small amount of fuel unless you run the tank dry by burning all the remaining fuel in the tank OR take the generator completely apart and let it air dry (the internal material in a Coleman generator is very similar to cardboard). I do not recommend taking apart a generator....it's easier to buy a new one than repair a damaged/clogged one.

All of the above is why I don't really bother dumping fuel from an "active" stove or lantern. It's messy and doesn't really solve the lacquering issue. I define "active" as a stove or lantern that gets used at least once or twice a year. Sure, you can dump the fuel tank, but be aware that some fuel always remains in the various parts above (unless you do the burn it to empty it method). Do not be surprised if you have still have issues even in a stove or lantern that you thought was drained dry of fuel but has sat unused for a couple of years.

It is also why I do not use unleaded gasoline in my fuel stoves/lanterns. The additives just hasten the death of generators due to the clogging from the additives (and cause problems with the pickup tube functions).

I do agree with Coleman regarding protecting stoves in a case (or trash bag) to prevent the spiders from getting into the air/fuel vapor mixing tubes. They really do seem to like building webs/homes in those areas.

[bluestar99]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

I collect Coleman lanterns and stoves. They are what I carry when camping. My experience has been to leave the fuel in the tank. As long as it is Coleman fuel and not Automobile gas I see no reason to drain the tanks. Now if you do not expect to use the stove for years to come I would drain it. The newer tanks on 413 and 425 models can not even be completely emptied by simply pouring the fuel back out of the filler cap. The main problem with Colman stoves and lanterns is rust in the tanks. If you store a tank outside and not in a temperature controlled environment the tank will slowly take on moisture do to temperature changes and condensation. The better the fuel cap gasket is the longer it takes to happen.
I have the lantern my family used when I was a kid in the 60's. It sat in my basement from 1989 to 2010. I replaced the fuel cap gasket and oiled the pump leather. It fired right up with the 1989 gas in it. My collection of lanterns and stoves is well over 100 pcs, and nearly everyone I bought had fuel in it. All I do is open the tank, and smell the fuel. If it smells right and is not dark, (symptom of rust) I go ahead and light it. Most of them burn with the old fuel in them. If I get a rusty Lantern tank, I pour out the old fuel. Then add a small handful of BB's to the tank. Pour is a few ounces of fuel and seal up the tank. Then it's several minutes of shaking the bb's in the tank. This breaks up the loose rust and scale. Pour out the fuel and strain into a coffee can through a paper towel. You will see all the rust collected in the paper towel. Add the strained fuel back in and repeat. Do this until the fuel comes out with no rust specks in a clean paper towel. Shake out all the bb's and the tank is ready to go. Put in fresh fuel. While I have the lantern apart I pull the generator off and take out the needle inside. Most of the time these can be reused. As long as the pricker wire is still on the end of the internal needle it can be cleaned. I use brake cleaner and a little steel wool to polish the needle. Be careful of the pricker wire. Put it back together. Oil the pump leather and light it. Most often, if it does not light or stay lit it's the fuel cap gasket that needs to be replaced. These old lantern and simple work horses and can last nearly forever if cared for.

[Denni2]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

Great information bluestar99 and a65hoosier. Now I don't feel so bad for neglecting my lanterns. They are always kept in the basement. I am going to get them out this weekend and check them and oil the gaskets.

I always learn something new here.

[a65hoosier]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

Great information bluestar99 and a65hoosier. Now I don't feel so bad for neglecting my lanterns. They are always kept in the basement. I am going to get them out this weekend and check them and oil the gaskets.

I always learn something new here.

Nah, you're not neglecting them. Basement storage, periodic use...all good.

I have a Coleman single mantle lantern made in 1937...almost 80 years old. Nickle plated engraved brass tank, original glass (I leave the original glass at home and use a substitute globe when I camp). I smile every time I light it up. It just amazes me that it still works, every time.

My favorite "big" stove is an old Coleman dated 1952. Clean, no rust, original funky cylinder style gold fuel tank. I wouldn't trade it for anything-we use it every year.

Older Coleman stoves and lanterns (especially) seem to keep going and going with just the most basic of care.

On your lanterns, if you have any questions on oiling the pump cup or other maintenance, just ask.

[MountainMama]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

I have and use the white gas stove and lantern that my dad used with we were kids. The lantern even has the 1967 date on the bottom, with the month.

Obviously, I've replaced more mantles on the lantern than I can count. On the stove, I have only replaced the generator once. I have never emptied either of them between trips. The way the fuel tank fits inside the stove makes it impossible for the tank to turn into a potentially leaking position. Even so, both pieces have seals so air tight that I can't imagine that would ever happen even if they were stored upside down.

My dad also never emptied fuel. The Coleman fuel jug lasts a long, long time. People I know who use propane are always buying the little tanks. I buy fuel once every few years. Never had any problem with the equipment or the fuel.

ETA: I am glad that before reading this thread I had no idea the fuel was supposed to be emptied between trips. I am borderline neurotic about taking care of things and this would have added to my to-do or to-be-annoyed-that-husband-didn't-do list.

[NYCgrrl]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

I don't drain my Coleman stove before storing it but do strain any leftover fuel before using it again. I do lose my wittle mind cleaning everything but the fuel tank over the winter though.

[MountainMama]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

My little funnel has a strainer built into it. However, that is only used from can to tank. I've never dumped out any tank and re-strained it. never thought about it. God, I hope this thread doesn't haunt me. LOL I've had no problems all these years so going to try to put the idea out of my head.

[Mike]

Re: Liquid Fuel Stove Question

I am new to camping and need some advice. The liquid fuel stoves seem to hold a fair amount of fuel. I have seen some posts that say maybe enough for 10 days of camping. Well my camping would be for only a couple of days and I am concerned about unused fuel. First off, does it go bad? Also, does it leak or spill out of the burners when driving with fuel in the stove tank or do I need to remove the fuel?

Anthony

Lots of bad and mixed advice here on this question, which is unusual. Here is some solid advice:

1) Liquid fuel usage: None of the liquid fuel stoves I know of will hold enough fuel for ten days. There is a very slight fuel efficiency difference between stoves, but not really that much difference because it is the BTU of the fuel that cooks the food, not the stove. On average, if you just use a stove for cooking and not boil-purifying water or melting snow, one pint of liquid fuel will last two to three people one weekend barely. If you are using the stove a lot for cooking elaborate foods or boiling lots of water, bring some spare fuel or use a campfire for a meal or two.

2) Stove fuel life/stability: Coleman fuel or so called "white gas" is 45 octane naptha. It is not filtered or refined unleaded gasoline. It is very stable and will last for several years. Coleman fuel does not lacquer like automotive gasoline. I have seen cans of Coleman fuel that are twenty years old and the fuel inside is as good as new.

The thing to be careful about is moisture build up in the fuel tank. When you pump the tank to pressurize the stove, you pressurize ambient air into the stove tank. This air includes moisture which, when pressurized turns into water. This water will eventually gather inside the bottom of you stove fuel tank. Eventually, this water will make your stove run fussy or shut down your stove altogether until you get the water out of the tank and the stove. You can help get rid of this water by adding a very little pure alcohol, HEET brand fuel line cleaner (the stuff made with isopropyl alcohol), or Sea Foam brand fuel line cleaner to the fuel in your stove tank. OR once per year, usually at the end of your camp season, pour out the fuel in the stove tank and let the stove tank inside dry out. Do not store your stove with the fuel cap off thinking you are keeping the tank dry, however because bugs and spiders like to go inside the tank and they can cause big problems.

If your liquid stove runs fussy and you have been only using Coleman fuel, the problem usually is this condensed moisture water. The wetter the air, the more moisture, and the sooner this is a problem. So, if you camp in the Olympic Rain Forest in Washington often... well, you are going to get water in your fuel tank faster than the guy camping in the Arizona desert.

In old stoves pre-1990s that had steel fuel tanks (ie Coleman), this moisture would cause the inside of the tanks to rust and sometimes even rust right through the tank. Since that time, stove makers like Coleman have lined the inside of the tank with rubberized coatings and some other stove makers like WhisperLite have used aluminum tanks.

All things considered, I believe that liquid fuel stoves are the most efficient, economical, and safest stoves available today.