Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

[Stillness Wilderness]

Hi All,

Well now that our first camping trip has come and gone, we now have the camping bug and are thinking about a late fall or winter camping trip.

Has anyone done any winter camping, and do you have any suggestions/advice? I'm guessing hand warmers, good sleeping bags, etc. are needed, but was interested in any tips, tricks, or lessons you may have.

Thanks!
SW

[a65hoosier]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

SW - I go winter camping a few trips every year now. Search the forums for "winter camping" "cold weather", etc. I've also had a couple of threads related to winter/cold weather camping.

A few tips off the top of my head:

Women (and children) generally sleep "colder" than men. Plan your sleeping systems accordingly to allow for extra insulation for them (unless you know they sleep "warm").

Hand/Mega Warmers...or for a less expensive route...hot water in a nalgene bottle thrown into the sleeping bag at night. Side benefit to the water bottle trick? Unfrozen water for morning coffee/tea!

Eat a good meal before bed (use the facilities and empty the bladder before bed also-your body uses quite a bit of energy keeping that bag o liquid warm when it could be using/sending that internal heat to your feet/toes and other extremities). Remember---your body is the heat source for the night---your sleeping bag and clothes, etc is only there to capture and hold your body's heat close to you. If you're not making heat (due to not eating properly), you will be colder.

The fit on a winter sleeping bag should be close to you. The more "space" in the bag...the more "space" your body must heat. There is nothing wrong with doubling bags or using a fleece liner (one inside the other) or piling on the blankets (although I find they end up sliding off or get scrunched off since I'm a tosser/turner sleeper).

Wear dry fresh "bed clothes only" for sleeping (including socks)-don't wear the same clothing you wore around all day as they are carrying moisture. These bed clothes should be warm and moisture wicking. Wear a hat/hood/balaclava (or draw the mummy bag hood up) to bed. Layer up if necessary.

Don't stick your face in the sleeping bag to keep it warm (all the moisture in your breath will condense inside your bag and create a wetness inside your bag).

Vent your tent properly even tho it is cold outside (you don't want that breathing moisture condensing inside your tent walls...you'll still will get some "snow flakes" but the idea is to minimize it and get moisture out of the tent as quickly as possible).

Turn water bottles upside down to help prevent the opening from getting iced over.

In really cold weather, Coleman gas/fuel is less finicky than propane or butane (like a backpackers canister type-unless you run it flipped over, then it'll crank in the cold).

You will definitely need a appropriate sleep system to be comfortable (or provide auxiliary heat via a portable heater-then none of this matters-lol).

Your pad and the insulation it provides is just as important (and probably more-so in my opinion) than your sleeping bag. My winter system includes a Therm-a-rest Ridgerest Solar (closed cell foam-R value 3.5) topped by a Therm-a-rest LuxuryMap insulated pad (open cell foam-R value 6.8). R values are cumulative-so I'm at 10.3, which is probably overkill. I use a down bag E/N rated to 20 degrees. To get down into the single digits, which I did this past winter, I beefed the bag up using a Sea to Summit thermo bag liner and then covering myself with a 100% wool thick heavy blanket when the temps dipped in the early am. I was very comfortable. It's the getting out of that warm set-up, getting dressed and into the brisk morning air that's the fun part.

Of course, appropriate clothing for the trip along with back-up boots/shoes, etc. Heartier hot meals and beverages, etc. You'll find your load is heavier on a winter camping trip. I actually prefer winter camping....no crowds, no bugs, very quiet at night, and a campfire when it is cold out is sooooo much better than a campfire in the hot summer.

[terasec]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

Think a65 covered most of it
really difficult to explain the experience
you just have to get out and experience it for yourself
will say without a heat source inside temps will be the same as outside temps
properly rated bag will retain your heat longer, if its not rated for the temp you will feel that cold within. 1 hour
you will probably be warm when going to sleep as your body generates heat from just moving but once at rest you will get cold
i recomend starting with a fall trip and ease into cold winter trip
also who will you be camping with? How tolerant are they to the cold? Kids? Ages?
i love winter camping but would never subject my wife to it

[MacGyver]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

A big plus one on terasec's recommendation to ease into a Winter trip by going out in the Fall. You might find that temps in the 50s, or even in the 40s at night is as much as you'd like to deal with. Finding yourself unprepared for just how cold it can get at night when it's freezing or below makes for a miserable experience.

Beyond that I can't think of anything to add here, but I know of a subtraction. Leave the bug spray at home. :p

[James.]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

Hi All,

Well now that our first camping trip has come and gone, we now have the camping bug and are thinking about a late fall or winter camping trip.

Has anyone done any winter camping, and do you have any suggestions/advice? I'm guessing hand warmers, good sleeping bags, etc. are needed, but was interested in any tips, tricks, or lessons you may have.

Thanks!
SW

This makes me smile.

[Happy Joe]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

Good advice above!
I can only add that I have found layering the bag with a fleece sleep sack (or poncho liner or wool blanket) can help extend its temperature range if it gets colder than expected (in any season)... the old advice about putting more insulation below the bag than on top is usually still good (though a bit less imperative with modern highly insulative sleeping pads).
Proper venting of the tent is vey important. Tents with either excessive or insufficient venting may need to be temporarily modified... I prefer a small vent high and a larger vent low.
Any combustion or catalytic heater will emit moisture which can cause issues (like cold rain inside the tent at 3:00 am). (Proper bags are more important than heaters, IMO).
I use a heater to pre-warm the tent before entering or leaving the bag, then turn it off... It can also help if something goes not right while learning...
Note; a hand warmer can help pre-warm the foot of the bag (but mine gave me a hot foot)... the one time that I tried it.

Enjoy!

[tplife]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

As stated above, a 5.0 R-Value or better self-inflating pad or thick open-cell mattress directly on the tent floor is a must. Stick with temp ratings provided by good-quality companies regarding your sleeping bag. And don't worry if you hate mummy bags: it's the loft of the insulation that keeps you warm, not how tightly you're cocooned inside your sleeping bag. A compressible pillow is not a bad idea either, Thermarest has nice ones that are a lot more comfortable than a rolled-up jacket. And if like me, you disdain wearing hats to bed, don't worry: you don't lose more than 10% of your body heat through your head. We use a NorthStar propane lantern to heat up the tent inside before bed, this and a soft blanket inside on the floor for moving about make for a cozy winter haven - but temps below freezing without proper gear do make for an unhappy experience, LOL.

[a65hoosier]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

i recomend starting with a fall trip and ease into cold winter trip

Probably the best advice overall on the thread. SW - We didn't immediately go from summer camping to winter, below freezing camping. We started off in fall, and as we accumulated experience...and gear...we moved to true winter camping - each time we pushed the low temps a bit more. Our first real winter camp was in the backyard to test our stuff in below freezing temps. lol

Finding yourself unprepared for just how cold it can get at night when it's freezing or below makes for a miserable experience.

100% agree. I spent a night as a young Boy Scout in below freezing temps, in a tent with no floor, with a 3 season rectangle bag, on top of a mylar blanket. Slept on pine needles. My tent mate had a down bag and some sort of foam pad and slept the night away. I froze and spent the night awake waiting for dawn...when the campfire would get going. I still can see myself laying there in a ball trying to keep warm. Miserable. I truly remember that almost 40 years later. As an adult, I was determined not to repeat that experience. lol

Leave the bug spray at home. :p

lol...Excellent advice! Probably ought to bring the sunscreen & chapstick on the trip.

This makes me smile.

It did me too. It's great to essentially read..."Fun time!! Let's go again!!!!"

Any combustion or catalytic heater will emit moisture which can cause issues

Yep Yep. I'd also add that if you are going to use one of these unattended to also purchase a CO detector and always always open a window (or two) for proper ventilation. SW - don't worry about having windows open and the heater running. I believe MacGyver runs a Buddy with windows open in his Kodiak and keeps it above 70 inside.

We use a NorthStar propane lantern to heat up the tent inside before bed, this and a soft blanket inside on the floor for moving about make for a cozy winter haven - but temps below freezing without proper gear do make for an unhappy experience, LOL.

I'm going to do the tent preheat with the propane lantern next winter trip with the wife (she only struggles with the getting in and getting out of the bag). I can typically lure her out with a hot cup o coffee, but this should help....get me up/out. lol We also use a blanket on the floor of the tent. It does seem to make the tent "cozier". It's certainly nicer putting a hand down on a blanket rather than a cold tent floor.

[Stillness Wilderness]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

Hi All,

Thanks so much a65hoosier, MacGyver, James, HappyJoe, TpLife, and terasec. All awesome tips and comments! Just like my last trip, I am taking down notes in Microsoft OneNote so I can be ready as possible.

On our last trip, the one morning it was in the high 40s I think and it was cold! Part of that was because I went to sleep only half in my sleeping bag. Definitely going to do a fall trip before a winter trip!

For the heat factor....I have another tent I will try for fall. It's a 4 season tent, and smaller than the Browning I just used so hoping that helps retain a little heat. I have a Buddy heater, but my 4 season tent is not canvas so I'd be afraid it might catch fire. I'm guessing the canvas tents are bit more fire resistant, so there is less risk with using a heater inside?

Thanks again for all the great advice! Much appreciated.

SW

[actad]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

seemed to have double posted when I edited - sorry

[actad]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

I am only comfortable in a tent down to the 40's, after that it is strictly travel trailer for me.

I use Grabber tarps inside the tent walls with the silver side in - helps with the cold that seeps in and acts like a wind breaker.

I also buy the flexible type of silver window reflectors - mine are the large truck size from Family Dollar. I sleep on top of one in the sleeping bag.

Speaking of which, I have a Coleman 40 degree sleeping bag inside of a double sleeping bag and both are used on top of the cot - the double sleeping bag goes down to the tent floor on both sides.

While I have not used it yet in cold weather, I also have a one person tent with a rainfly that can go over the cot for a small area to keep warm inside the bigger cabin tent. Also in the have not used it yet category is a candle lantern.

[MacGyver]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

I'm guessing the canvas tents are bit more fire resistant, so there is less risk with using a heater inside?

Yep, canvas will hold heat better than nylon, but as far as being more prone to catching fire, both nylon and canvas can be easily damaged by a heater. It's more about having enough clearance to keep things away from the heat source. Every propane heater I've looked at requires around 3 feet of clearance over and in front, and a foot or so to the sides. The heaters are all at least a foot high, so you already need a 4 foot ceiling. That pretty much limits you to large tents so that you can keep the tent, you, your bedding and anything else you bring inside away from the heater. Dome tents, even large ones like 10x14, are particularly hard to heat because of the sloping walls. By the time you get the 3 foot clearance overhead, the heater's in the middle of the tent, meaning your sleeping bag/cot/gear all wind up too close to heater. Add another person or two to the tent and you're jammed even further. Try to picture this: I have a Kodiak 10x10 that they call a 4-person tent. Everybody should know by now that that really means it's a 3-person, plus gear, tent so you're not all crawling over each other. The walls aren't quite as sloped as a dome, so the heater can be placed a little closer to the walls. But it still limits where I can place the heater when I have someone else in the tent. When I'm solo, it's not an issue. But when there's a second cot, the only feasible way to set up is a cot to the left, a cot to the right and the heater between them. So now the 4 person tent is a 2-person tent.

All of that to say, if you're looking at smaller tents, you'd be better off investing in bedding to match the expected (and maybe even unexpected) temps. If that shock of cold in the morning when you first get out of your sleeping bag is too much of a concern, keeping a propane lantern within reach to knock off a bit of the chill is a reasonable workaround

[MacGyver]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

Also in the have not used it yet category is a candle lantern.

A very timely post. I'd been looking at the three candle UCO Candlelier for years and trying to find a review, a forum post or something online that said it was used to heat a tent and how well it worked. All I've found is that it's great for keeping coffee hot, can boil small amounts of water and that it (supposedly) puts out 5,000 BTUs. Well... I stopped looking, found a decent price on the lantern and bought one. I also bought the new Kodiak 2-person tent recently and I'm hoping to get out in the next few weeks so I can try the new setup. So, after I make the trip, there will finally be someone online who posts his findings. That might actually wind up having someone else looking to heat their tent with the lantern to find this forum!

[actad]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

A very timely post. I'd been looking at the three candle UCO Candlelier for years and trying to find a review, a forum post or something online that said it was used to heat a tent and how well it worked. All I've found is that it's great for keeping coffee hot, can boil small amounts of water and that it (supposedly) puts out 5,000 BTUs. Well... I stopped looking, found a decent price on the lantern and bought one. I also bought the new Kodiak 2-person tent recently and I'm hoping to get out in the next few weeks so I can try the new setup. So, after I make the trip, there will finally be someone online who posts his findings. That might actually wind up having someone else looking to heat their tent with the lantern to find this forum!

Looking forward to your tent review - had to buy a hot water heater for the house so passed on that Cabela's deal you posted about on that smaller Kodiak.

[Irate Mormon]

Re: Got the camping bug now - any winter camping advice?

The only thing I can add here, is that the temperature ratings of most sleeping bag manufacturers are....optimistic, by 10-20 degrees. If you're looking at down bags, consider a quilt instead...down compressed under your body doesn't have a lot of insulating value.