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3n1 Jackets vs separates.?

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  • 3n1 Jackets vs separates.?

    Not sure if this is the right place... but maybe not a bad place to start. I've been looking for a new winter jacket for the upcoming winter months and although its number one goal is not backpacking, a lot of the higher end jackets are made for being multipurpose such that you have multiple layers and they pack down, etc. e.g. a down jacket then a rain shell and then maybe a separate fleece, etc.

    I've been looking at a North Face 3n1 jacket that seems to fit the bill really well, but I have also checked out some artyrex products where I could get the down / rain shell jackets separates. Of course the latter is one of those situations where I have noticed that the price increases dramatically. Meaning instead of spending $350-400 one might be spending closer to $650-700 which as I write this ... this seems crazy... although some people say they may "Just" get the shell or just get the down jacket and it covers them for 90% of the situations...

    Thoughts on the 3n1 versus separate down / rain shell jackets? They seem to really jump up in price when you start getting into the individual pieces.

  • #2
    Re: 3n1 Jackets vs separates.?

    I have a 3-1 jacket combo (Columbia) and a bunch of separate shells and insulation layers.

    The main advantage of the 3-1 is that they are usually priced a bit lower (in part because the shells don't have $$$ brand name royalty-cost membranes like GoreTex or NeoShell). If you always wear the insulation layer, then having it zipped into the jacket is good.

    The main advantage of separates is flexibility, in what you buy and in what you wear on a given day.

    For example, when I need a winter shell, I'm always wearing a fleece or a sweater anyway, so having the heavy insulation layer zipped into the shell is just too much. 99% of the time I don't want additional insulation in the shell. That would be fine, except that the insulation layers in the 3-1 jackets are usually butt ugly when worn by themselves, so they end up being a fairly useless piece.

    The insulation layer in 3-1 jackets is either a very heavy fleece layer or a synthetic puffy insulation layer. I find that the heavy 300-wt fleece is too much. Too warm, too heavy. I much prefer the lighter fleece layers and almost always have one on. The synthetic puffy layers are pretty useful as stand alone jackets -- some insulation, some warmth, a little wind and rain resistant -- but the one in my Columbia jacket is too ugly to wear by itself.

    I like to be able to choose a fleece insulation layer (because I'm already wearing one), a synthetic puffy insulation layer (because I might be sweating shovelling snow), or down insulation layer (the most comfortable, but bad in freezing rain or when sweating). If you need the rain shell, down is not the right insulation layer, IMO. Down is just not good in wet conditions. But, a cold clear winter day? Give me down every time!

    Cost? I got a really fancy Columbia 3-1 for $99 at Sierra Trading Post (similar deals at Marshalls). The North Face and Arc and Marmot and Patagonia stuff is going to be more expensive, partly because those brands are just more expensive period.

    The 3-1 shells and the lower price separate shells from all of these companies all use a generic (inexpensive) polyurethane waterproof laminate (although they all call it some brand name to make it sound fancy). It's 100% waterproof, but doesn't breath at all (despite the marketing claims).

    The expensive shells are usually expensive because they use one of the "breathable" waterproof membranes (like one of several price-levels of GoreTex or Polartec's new NeoShell). These laminate are a little bit breathable, but you have to pay significant royalty for using the brand name. This jacks the price of the shell way up. In most cases, the GoreTex or Polartec fabrics are the nicest fabrics around so you are paying top dollar for top quality. For example, a 3-layer GoreTex ProShell shell is ridiculously nicely made, regardless of the brand. Likewise the new PolarTec NeoShell stuff is as nice as it gets.

    In all cases, it pays to bargain hunt, especially for closeouts. A GoreTex ProShell is a GoreTex ProShell. The differences between brands are miniscule because GoreTex is calling the shots on fabrics and how they are made (GoreTex seam tape, lifetime warranty, etc.). I would never pay $500 for a rain jacket (this is what we are really talking about), but I saw a $500 Marmot GoreTex Proshell ski jacket on the clearance race at TJMAXX for $175 and grabbed so fast it made my head spin. Sierra Trading Post is great place for this sort of bargain hunting. They have some of these right now for $225 after their 35% discount coupon. They also have the NeoShell Marmot Nabu softshells for men or women at $160 after the discount. That's the latest and greatest softshell fabric. Crazy nice stuff.

    Putting aside price considerations, my top choice for winter jacket combo would be an unlined GoreTex ProShell shell and a selection of separate insulation layers (a light fleece, a synthetic puffy, and a light down puffy). The GoreTex is the worst best simple rain jacket, wearable in winter or in downpour conditions any time of year. Super nice fabric. As light as any conventional rain jacket. Fairly comfortable. Will last forever (or GoreTex will give you a new one forever). But, I would never pay retail for a GoreTex version. Functionally it's not worth 4 or 5 times the price.

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    • #3
      Re: 3n1 Jackets vs separates.?

      I recommend NOT getting the 3-in-one. I have had them, but usually end up taking it apart and only using one of the pieces. When you are going out, you usually just grab a jacket. You don't fool around with zipping pieces together. 3-in-1 are usually bulky and don't really fit quit right as if the jackets are shifting around inside themselves or something. When you see people wearing them, they just don't look comfortable - too bulky like the person is wearing too much for the weather.

      I live in a pretty rough weather place. Really, you need two or maybe three weather specific jackets for the whole year: Wind jacket, rain coat, and warm jacket. Nice collar is good, but forget the bulky flappy hoods. You will wear a hat anyway.

      If you live in a cold weather place, check out getting a down jacket or down vest. They are so affordable these days (thanks to China), everybody should have one. Sure, like anything else, you can spend an infinite amount of money on a down jacket, but you can get them for around $100 that works well for most situations.
      Last edited by Mike; 10-24-2014, 04:38 AM.

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      • #4
        Re: 3n1 Jackets vs separates.?

        As an FYI... I had really liked the NF 3n1 because it has a gore-tex outshell, which I realize is just marketing as others provide similar quality without the 'name' goretex, but it is still good stuff. what I discovered though is that i could buy the outshell from northface which is still relatively warm jacket for a 'rain' jacket, but then paired it with the NF Nuptze down jacket. It is a much more substantial down jacket than what comes with the mountain light 3n1. It may still be somewhat overkill except for the harshest winter months, but that is usually 3-4 months here and sometimes more depending. I re-looked at some arteryx, and other brands,but when getting the separate jackets, they didn't necessarily pair together although they could and they quickly added up to being much more expensive. Now I just need to update my gloves and maybe some insulated pants and I will have just the right combo for this and future winter months.

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        • #5
          Re: 3n1 Jackets vs separates.?

          In my opinion, it depends on how was the weather in your place, if you live in a place where the weather conditions are so extreme then I will suggest you go with 3 in 1 jacket otherwise a simple jacket is good and easy to carry.

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