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  • Back from a cool weather camp trip

    Hey gang,

    I thought I would give an update on our cool weather camp trip. I had posted a while back asking for advice/thoughts on how to stay warm in a tent when the outside temps drop. I received some really good feedback. Some of the advice/ideas we made sure we did....and some of them we brought...and didn't use or need to use.

    But...after all of that....we had a change of plans and instead of a romantic getaway for two to a primitive, no electric site...we ended up with my son and his friend coming along. So I ended up getting a site at Turkey Run State Park (it's a great state park)...but with electric. Not many tenters at the campground...12 out of perhaps 100 campers.

    Ultimately, my wife and I slept in the cold weather Cloud Peak 4 (without heat) and my son and friend slept in the draftier Slumberjack (but using an electric ceramic heater). After all the cold weather camping prep...my wife and I were determined to not resort to a heater (although I will admit Plan B was to retreat to the heated tent if she got cold). lol. Our low's got around 40 at night/morning.

    Some thoughts:

    The Thermarest LuxMap's sleeping pads were excellent. No cold from the ground, comfortable. We had a wool blanket on the tent floor, then the pad, then our 20 degree bags. Brought the fleece bag liners...didn't use them. We did change clothing for sleep, wore wool socks and a cap. We also ate, took a good walk, and hit the "comfort station" prior to calling it a night. That was it. Plenty warm at night. No complaints about being cold.

    While doing better....I still brought too much "stuff". Food mainly. We never eat as much as I bring. And bringing two preteen boys really took our pre-planned menu for 2 adults into chaos.

    I really need to get a different pillow....or get used to my arm. My wife got a new Thermarest compressible pillow for the trip. I decided to be cheap/thrifty/value oriented and not spend $16 on myself and instead use our current Coleman pillows (we've had them for a couple of years). Big mistake. As I was packing, I noticed how flat the Coleman pillows were (just like she said). No problem...I'll just take two of them for me. Well....let's just say I found out, throughout the night, that two of these together have a tendency to slide apart. Leaving me constantly laying on one or the other...and waking up...searching for the other one trying to stack them back up. My wife refused to "let me try" her pillow for one night during the trip. I don't blame her...she looked really cozy each time I glanced over her way while I was searching for one of my slippery pillows.

    I tried to play around with and use the Kelty Noah 12 tarp as an additional vestibule/covered space out in front of the two tents....and also cover the picnic table. Just not quite big enough and still have protected walking space. But the extra 4 feet in a Noah 16 would make it very doable. We only got a sprinkle very early am so we didn't need the rain protection. I did angle the Noah into some steady 15mph winds. It held steady and gave us some wind break (we were out in the open). I did have it tied down/guyed out securely. Gonna keep playing with tarp set-ups.

    One of my projects will be to replace the guylines on the tarp. Let's just say they are hard to see at night.

    All in all it was a very successful venture into the "cold". We are already planning our next one and hope to get it in before Thanksgiving. Thanks to all of you that offered your advice and thoughts on cold weather prepping/equipment/techniques. Experience is valuable. Sharing your experience was greatly appreciated.

    Few pics of the campsite:







    2020: 7 nights 2019: 5 nights 2018: 20 nights 2017: 19 nights 2016: 20 nights
    Spring->Fall: Marmots: Limestone 6P and 4P, Stormlight 3P, Tungsten 3P; SlumberJack Trail Tent 6P, BA Yahmonite 5P
    Fall->Spring: Cabelas Instinct Alaskan Guide 8P, Field & Stream Cloudpeak 4P, Eastern Mountain Products Torrent 3P
    Every season: Kelty Noah's Tarps- 20, 16, 12; REI Camp Tarp 16; BA Three Forks Shelter

    sigpic

  • #2
    Re: Back from a cool weather camp trip

    Many thanks for the update, details, and photos...Particularly regarding the Noah, which in the 16 config would be a great addition to our SoCal gear! Are poles included with the tarp? Man, is that a bedspread on your picnic table?
    “People have such a love for the truth that when they happen to love something else, they want it to be the truth; and because they do not wish to be proven wrong, they refuse to be shown their mistake. And so, they end up hating the truth for the sake of the object which they have come to love instead of the truth.”
    ―Augustine of Hippo, Fifth Century A.D.

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    • #3
      Re: Back from a cool weather camp trip

      It's just me, but a Mr Buddy heater in that vestibule would be an awesome addition. But I am a wimp.
      On the pillows, we don't skimp and take our bed pillows with us.
      Nights camped in 2019: 24
      Nights camped in 2018: 24

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Back from a cool weather camp trip

        Hey, I've been there! I used to make summer vacation trips to my grandparent's farm just east of Rockville and we made many picnic outing trips to Turkey Run State Park. Gorgeous place.

        Looks like a terrific campsite set up. The separate tents for the grown ups and kids is really the ideal way to go. I hear ya on the invisible guylines. I've learned the hard way. Always wear a head lamp and always use reflective guys. It's the only way I can keep from tripping over every guy line multiple times!

        For car camping, I take an extra down pillow from home. I've got a nylon camping pillow case for it. Fits in a duffle bag with the two sleeping bags I take.

        TPLife:

        The Kelty doesn't come with any poles. Just the tarp, a stuff sack, some stakes, and minimal guy lines. Kelty does, however, sell a really solid adjustable pole. 1 inch diameter anodized aluminum with a push button adjuster at the bottom. Adjusts from 80 to 99 inches. Shock-corded and breaks down to about 24 inch sections. Very beefy and solid. Sunny Sports usually has the best price on them.

        http://www.sunnysports.com/p-kltap/k...pole-for-tarps

        The Kelty Noah tarps are a ridiculously good deal. The Noah 16 would be a monster. It's a 22.5 foot ridgeline pitched on the diagonal.

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        • #5
          Re: Back from a cool weather camp trip

          Glad you had fun. Thanks for the report.

          I never carry pillows camping. Too bulky and too much extra stuff.

          Instead, I stuff a sleeping bag sack with spare clothes.

          This last trip, it got so cold that I had to wear all my clothes for sleeping. I had to put my boots into a stuff sack and use them for a pillow. It was not ideal, but better than nothing

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          • #6
            Re: Back from a cool weather camp trip

            tplife - As hwc indicated, the Noah's do not come with poles. I have used adjustable poles from Cabelas for several years without any issues. They come in 7, 8, 9, and 10 foot lengths (I have 8 and 9 footers). Consists of three shock corded sections and a lower section with a friction style lock. These are also fairly sturdy (1 inch dia) and the 10 footers are half the price of the Kelty poles (the shorter ones are even less). But...they are made of steel. Not sure how they would hold up in a coastal environment with the salt.

            http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabel...0000876&rid=20

            lol....no, it isn't a bedspread on picnic table. It's actually a Thanksgiving tablecloth my wife fished out from somewhere in the house. It has some nice fall color leaf pattern on it. We normally take a plastic cheapo, but the fabric tablecloth was much warmer to the touch. And stylish too!!! lol

            kingquad - I hear you on the buddy heater. Still something we may consider down the road. It wasn't cold sleeping....but it was a bit cold in the morning crawling out of the sleeping bag and putting on "day" clothes. A heater to take the chill off at night and again in the morning might be the ticket.

            hwc - How about that? Small world, huh? Yes, Turkey Run is one of our favorite parks to do some hiking/stream bed exploring. Beautiful place. We try to visit in the off seasons as it gets very crowded during the summer.

            100% agree on the lines. Mine are neither colorful (black) or reflective (supposed to glow in the dark- but...uh no....they don't). Even with a headlamp, I still tripped and my wife clotheslined herself. Funny....the boys didn't come close to having a problem this trip. Definitely need to upgrade before one of us gets hurt....or we damage/tear equipment.

            I'd grab/use a pillow from home...but ours are all so gigantic.

            Mike - Dude, you are hardcore cold weather tenter. Since we're car camping, I make some space for a pillow. The boot trick would have been bad for me...I stepped in dog poo the first day. The thought of bringing them inside and laying on them makes me gag. lol. But during this trip, a rolled up bundle of clothes would have been a better solution than what I was using.

            We didn't get a chance to try your tip on heating the picnic table from the underside with blankets covering it up. We spent most of our time around the fire. But I did take everything I needed to set it up...we just never tried it.
            2020: 7 nights 2019: 5 nights 2018: 20 nights 2017: 19 nights 2016: 20 nights
            Spring->Fall: Marmots: Limestone 6P and 4P, Stormlight 3P, Tungsten 3P; SlumberJack Trail Tent 6P, BA Yahmonite 5P
            Fall->Spring: Cabelas Instinct Alaskan Guide 8P, Field & Stream Cloudpeak 4P, Eastern Mountain Products Torrent 3P
            Every season: Kelty Noah's Tarps- 20, 16, 12; REI Camp Tarp 16; BA Three Forks Shelter

            sigpic

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            • #7
              Re: Back from a cool weather camp trip

              I'm glad the new tent worked out. I'm glad you didn't get rain. Your site looks wonderful. We haven't camped in Turkey Run butI love the hiking in that area.

              I don't blame your wife for not sharing her pillow. We bought a couple of synthetic down pillows. We have a couple if compression bags, we can get a sleeping bag, pillow, sheets, and towel in each. It really saves room in the car.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Back from a cool weather camp trip

                Thanks again a65hoosier, I would need two of those poles then. We also use the large-sized ThermaRest pillows are comfortable and compress down to almost nothing.


                http://http://i206.photobucket.com/a...r69/pillow.jpg
                Last edited by tplife; 10-23-2014, 07:55 PM.
                “People have such a love for the truth that when they happen to love something else, they want it to be the truth; and because they do not wish to be proven wrong, they refuse to be shown their mistake. And so, they end up hating the truth for the sake of the object which they have come to love instead of the truth.”
                ―Augustine of Hippo, Fifth Century A.D.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Back from a cool weather camp trip

                  tplife:

                  You would probably want the 8 foot version of the Cabelas poles. Those adjust from 6 ft to 8 ft which would cover most of the applications for the Noah tarp. At least with the Noah 12 tarp, 8 foot poles are plenty high enough for head room over a picnic table. Being able to drop them down to 6 feet would make setup easier and allow you to drop the tarp down at one end (or both ends) on a windy day.

                  I think going taller than 8 feet might get a little unwieldy.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Back from a cool weather camp trip

                    tp: hwc is correct. You don't really need more than the 8/9 footers. But....you might want to get 3 of them. I use the 3rd pole on one of the "wings" to open up more headroom if weather/wind cooperates (you can see in my pics the 3 pole setup). The main thing is that these wing style tarps are designed to be pitched taunt. No flapping noises during a windy night to keep everyone awake.

                    On the wings only.....if you want some more headroom under the tarp, I use that 3rd pole on a wing instead of using a line only. Rather than using a full 8 ft pole on a wing, I just don't use the separate bottom locking section and use only the 3 shock corded sections (just over 6 ft). Want to go lower? I only use 2 of the shock corded sections for the vertical and velcro/zip tie the third shock corded section to the remaining 2 pole sections that are standing (to keep that 3rd segment from laying on the ground). This will take the height down to under 5 feet (I don't go lower than that...might as well just tie off without a pole at that point). But that little bit of height on one of the wings really makes a difference as to headroom under the tarp.

                    Since you often camp in windy conditions, make sure you take plenty of additional guylines. You'll need a minimum of 6 lines for basic set-up (2...sometimes 3...on each main pole corner, and 1 on each wing). I have my extra lines already tied and ready to go with each having a carabiner. If I need more guylines on the tarp, I simply unclip a line from my extras, carabiner it to one of the Noah's attach points and stake it down. Fast and easy.

                    I really like having a tarp over my campsite. And I will be honest....I really love fiddling with it and it looks "cool". Once you get comfortable with the basic set-up, it goes up/down fast (minutes). I do it by myself. You can dip/lower a corner(s) or wing to protect from wind/sun angle, direct rain runoff, account for unlevel campsites, etc. The set up options are really up to your creativity and the situation.
                    2020: 7 nights 2019: 5 nights 2018: 20 nights 2017: 19 nights 2016: 20 nights
                    Spring->Fall: Marmots: Limestone 6P and 4P, Stormlight 3P, Tungsten 3P; SlumberJack Trail Tent 6P, BA Yahmonite 5P
                    Fall->Spring: Cabelas Instinct Alaskan Guide 8P, Field & Stream Cloudpeak 4P, Eastern Mountain Products Torrent 3P
                    Every season: Kelty Noah's Tarps- 20, 16, 12; REI Camp Tarp 16; BA Three Forks Shelter

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Back from a cool weather camp trip

                      Originally posted by Denni2 View Post
                      I'm glad the new tent worked out. I'm glad you didn't get rain. Your site looks wonderful. We haven't camped in Turkey Run butI love the hiking in that area.

                      I don't blame your wife for not sharing her pillow. We bought a couple of synthetic down pillows. We have a couple if compression bags, we can get a sleeping bag, pillow, sheets, and towel in each. It really saves room in the car.
                      Thanks! I tried Shades State Park down the road, but there weren't many decent campsites available. You should try Turkey Run for camping. Nice campground.

                      I knew she wouldn't give that pillow up. lol...after I refused to get one in the store, I knew she'd make me live with that decision for this trip. After 25 years of wedded bliss....I know the routine. lololol Amazing how much more bedding and clothes there are to pack when the temps drop. I like your idea of compression bags....we're working towards that way.
                      Last edited by a65hoosier; 10-24-2014, 07:05 AM.
                      2020: 7 nights 2019: 5 nights 2018: 20 nights 2017: 19 nights 2016: 20 nights
                      Spring->Fall: Marmots: Limestone 6P and 4P, Stormlight 3P, Tungsten 3P; SlumberJack Trail Tent 6P, BA Yahmonite 5P
                      Fall->Spring: Cabelas Instinct Alaskan Guide 8P, Field & Stream Cloudpeak 4P, Eastern Mountain Products Torrent 3P
                      Every season: Kelty Noah's Tarps- 20, 16, 12; REI Camp Tarp 16; BA Three Forks Shelter

                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Back from a cool weather camp trip

                        We've been invited on a camping trip in the snow. Any tips? We are noobs and this sounds a little overwhelming.
                        New to camping in So Cal!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Back from a cool weather camp trip

                          Originally posted by MaryA View Post
                          We've been invited on a camping trip in the snow. Any tips? We are noobs and this sounds a little overwhelming.
                          MaryA - It can seem a bit overwhelming, but really just requires some different preparation and some additional precautions than warm weather camping. I assume you have experience in spring/summer/fall style camping. I'm not sure I would make my first camping experience a cold one.

                          It comes down to having and bringing the correct gear/clothing to stay warm. Of course, if the campsite has electricity available, bringing along an electric heater to use will give you some "wiggle" room in terms of what is necessary to stay warm at night. Some other questions and considerations:

                          What type of tent will you use? (a summer tent, or large family size tent, typically has too much mesh/ventilation for a cold windy night. Likewise, a single wall tent may not allow enough ventilation to prevent condensation inside the tent. Although ventilation is always important, even in winter, the ability to close off/open some windows/etc. will allow you to balance keeping warmth in and/or condensation from your breath from freezing on interior tent surfaces.)

                          What type of sleeping bag do you have? (you can always "beef up" a bag's temp rating by adding blankets and wearing warm dry clothing-but it's better to begin with if the bag's rating is close to the low temps you anticipate.)

                          What will you be using to protect yourself from the cold ground? Opinions/advice will vary on what is "best" (see threads on cots/inflatable air mattresses/pads), but you must stop the cold ground/air from sucking your body's heat from you (your body weight "crushes" the insulating loft of your sleeping bag under you-thus reducing it's warmth ability at those points). If not, you will be cold all night-and that is a miserable way to spend the night. I am an insulated pad user. I use an open cell insulated/foam self-inflating Therm-a-Rest pad with an R value of 6.8 and use a wool blanket under that on the tent floor. One could always use a closed cell foam pad (fairly inexpensive) instead of a wool blanket. That, combined with a good low temp rated sleeping bag and a fleece sleeping bag liner inside makes up my sleep system. You can always add warm blankets on top if necessary.

                          What type of warm clothing do you have to sleep in? Dry, fresh, warm clothing is important for sleeping. Wool socks, polypro pj's, warm overclothing, and a hat/balaclava for your head. I bring a set of the above that I use only for sleeping and change just prior to crawling in the bag for night.

                          There are other tips/techniques that you can use. Search cold weather camping threads. Some of them:

                          Eat before bed (digestion raises your metabolism)
                          Exercise before bed (it also raises metabolism)
                          Empty your bladder before bed (your body uses energy "holding" it that could be used instead to keep warm)

                          I typically do all of the above just before bedtime. Eat a good meal/snack...take a good brisk walk and do the "business". Change clothes and crawl into the sleeping bag. Lights out.

                          Other tips: Heat water and put into a plastic bottle (make sure it seals tightly) and slide that down into the bottom of your sleeping bag. Likewise, you can buy "hand/foot" warmers-activate them and slide them into your sleeping bag.

                          You might want to try a test run outside in your backyard/deck/porch with all of your equipment/gear first...to see if you can be comfortably warm (maybe difficult to do a practice run, however, since you are in So Cal).

                          I am sure that there are other techniques that fellow members have for staying warm throughout the night-but those are the ones I have off the top of my head. Poke around on the forum and see what others have to say. Maybe some others will chime in.....
                          Last edited by a65hoosier; 11-26-2014, 08:50 AM.
                          2020: 7 nights 2019: 5 nights 2018: 20 nights 2017: 19 nights 2016: 20 nights
                          Spring->Fall: Marmots: Limestone 6P and 4P, Stormlight 3P, Tungsten 3P; SlumberJack Trail Tent 6P, BA Yahmonite 5P
                          Fall->Spring: Cabelas Instinct Alaskan Guide 8P, Field & Stream Cloudpeak 4P, Eastern Mountain Products Torrent 3P
                          Every season: Kelty Noah's Tarps- 20, 16, 12; REI Camp Tarp 16; BA Three Forks Shelter

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