Looking for advice on a tent

[tplife]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

Thanks McGyver, our late '80s tents already had the "new" features we look for in tents, so I can't speak for the bottom-feeder brands' performance - glad you lucked out! Sierra Trading Post is one of our search links, but their prices are always beatable through auctions and other searches. Hwc, how many auctions do you follow and for how long? Have you utilized the search features that alert you for new listings? As a shopping junkie, I understand that almost no one wants to put in the hours and hours it takes to follow auctions, but my comments are only to point out that t can be done, not once, but over and over again. I know it's all about the "I want it NOW" of our modern era.

Camping since 1960

[a65hoosier]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

Thanks McGyver, our late '80s tents already had the "new" features we look for in tents, so I can't speak for the bottom-feeder brands' performance - glad you lucked out! Sierra Trading Post is one of our search links, but their prices are always beatable through auctions and other searches. Hwc, how many auctions do you follow and for how long? Have you utilized the search features that alert you for new listings? As a shopping junkie, I understand that almost no one wants to put in the hours and hours it takes to follow auctions, but my comments are only to point out that t can be done, not once, but over and over again. I know it's all about the "I want it NOW" of our modern era.

Camping since 1960

tp - Did you buy those late 80's tents on eBay? If you did, they were truly older models, eBay started around 1997. I have been on eBay since 2004 and know all the search features, notifications, sniping, viewing completed auctions, etc. Done it all. I personally have had searches set (in variations) for a higher end tent (different brands) for over a year now. Nothing. Or should I say nothing that can't be matched in the overall internet "marketplace". Yes, if one is very patient, a great deal can be occasionally be scored there. That works great if one is already tent camping and can be very patient looking for that upgrade tent score. How long should a newbie wait to score that 60% off msrp tent before they go camping? In my personal test case, I'm still waiting. A year later.

I also know that you bring a scientific background to the forum and assume you like facts to support a theory (see the long running threads on "drain/don't drain" the cooler water). I have an auditor background and I bring that to the forum. I like to see documentation, evidence, artifacts, that support an assertion. In these tent suggestion threads, I regularly see evidence/links from MacGyver and hwc1954 that support their tent suggestions to campers. Are their tent recommendations at 60% off msrp? No, but 35%-45% off is supported and the newbie will be camping in the time it takes to ship it. It would be helpful to the forum if you could please show us a 60% off msrp tent that a newbie asking for advice in the thread could have scored, if only they were astute and patient on auctions. To keep it fair to us eBay folks, link just completed auctions in the last 30 days related to the poster's tent requirements. It should not be difficult for a shopping junkie and especially if it happens over and over again.

Hours and hours to follow auctions? Time is money in my world. I'd rather be camping than shopping.

[hwc1954]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

I got a Marmot Limelight for $110 or 50% of retail. It was the last one in stock from an obscure retailer in the less popular green color. I don't know if it was a mistake or what. Never seen another deal on a current model tent like that.

Just for kicks, I searched for Marmot tents on ebay last night. The vast majority are way MORE expensive than you can get with a modest amount of internet shopping. The few really good deals were on used tents, one with a serious rip at a zipper seam that would be difficult/expensive to fix. The other had an easy repair -- needed a new metal grommet in a piece of tie-down webbing. That one would be a good deal on last year's model Limelight 6. Starting bid is $150. Buy it now is $250 (45% off retail). The best price I see on the 2014 model today is $358 (20% off), but you can usually find a 30% off deal if you've got a few weeks to wait.

Best deals on closeout tents are usually in the winter!

[toedtoes]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

As an added comment to eBay, it has changed over the past 10 years. When it started, you could find items for ridiculously low prices at a fairly regular interval. But as more and more "businesses" started using eBay as a store front, this has changed. Those great deals are fewer and fewer and far between. While I spend a lot of time on eBay looking and watching items, I find that I rarely buy anymore.

And I'll add that Amazon seems to be going that way also. Several years ago, you could do a lot of internet shopping and Amazon was pretty much always the best price with great shipping. Now, their prices are not nearly as competitive and their shipping is not as uniformly as fast. I often find better deals elsewhere on the internet AND in stores.

A65hoosier says "time is money". I agree with that to a point. I'm willing to spend a reasonable amount of time to get a good deal. But, not everyone shops the same way. I try hard not to spend money on things I don't need. That means when I shop, I'm looking for a particular item. It is much harder to find a great deal when you have identified what you're looking for. If you're just looking for a "great deal on camping equipment" then you can probably find something on eBay (or any store stale) that fits that criteria. If you're looking for a "great deal on a Marmot Limelight 6", you are going to end up looking for a good while.

If you watch bargain shoppers, they rarely buy things that they need. They buy whatever is on sale at that time at a great price. This works if you: 1) have the desire to spend all that time shopping for things you don't need or want at the moment; 2) have the room to store all that you buy that won't be used for X amount of time; 3) don't mind spending money on stuff you may never end up using. I don't like to shop that way - for me, it ends up costing a lot more than just buying what I need when I need it.

[James.]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

As an added comment to eBay, it has changed over the past 10 years. When it started, you could find items for ridiculously low prices at a fairly regular interval. But as more and more "businesses" started using eBay as a store front, this has changed. Those great deals are fewer and fewer and far between. While I spend a lot of time on eBay looking and watching items, I find that I rarely buy anymore.

And I'll add that Amazon seems to be going that way also. Several years ago, you could do a lot of internet shopping and Amazon was pretty much always the best price with great shipping. Now, their prices are not nearly as competitive and their shipping is not as uniformly as fast. I often find better deals elsewhere on the internet AND in stores.

A65hoosier says "time is money". I agree with that to a point. I'm willing to spend a reasonable amount of time to get a good deal. But, not everyone shops the same way. I try hard not to spend money on things I don't need. That means when I shop, I'm looking for a particular item. It is much harder to find a great deal when you have identified what you're looking for. If you're just looking for a "great deal on camping equipment" then you can probably find something on eBay (or any store stale) that fits that criteria. If you're looking for a "great deal on a Marmot Limelight 6", you are going to end up looking for a good while.

If you watch bargain shoppers, they rarely buy things that they need. They buy whatever is on sale at that time at a great price. This works if you: 1) have the desire to spend all that time shopping for things you don't need or want at the moment; 2) have the room to store all that you buy that won't be used for X amount of time; 3) don't mind spending money on stuff you may never end up using. I don't like to shop that way - for me, it ends up costing a lot more than just buying what I need when I need it.

You left out that my time isn't without value. Unless your hobby is shopping for deals you are wasting time doing it.

[tplife]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

A65hoosier, you might be right, maybe the deals are gone on Ebay, we haven't bought tents at their auctions (don't need 'em) since 2010. I've been buying and selling on Ebay since April 2000, and saved a ton of money. In 2010 we got a new-with tags 4-season 3-man Sierra Designs Stretch Dome tent ($ 529.00 MSRP) for $ 250.00, including free shipping, but after setting it up inside I decided that I wanted more interior room, and sold it...for a profit around $30 or $40 at auction end, and replaced it with a Sierra Designs Bedouin 6 ($ 449.99 MSRP) new-with-tags for $ 190.00 shipped. Back in 2006, I replaced my old Famous Trails 2-man motorcycle tent with a Sierra Designs Electron 2 tent, ($199.00 MSRP) new-with-tags for $90.00. These tents are nothing like the Eureka! and Coleman models they often replaced....but the Bedouin 6 replaced the 1987 Sierra Designs 4 Base Camp that finally lost its waterproof flooring. I bought it Sport Chalet in Point Loma at a 30% off end-of-summer sale. That tent had fiberglas poles made using helicopter-blade technology, color-codded assembly, SwiftClip attachments, full-coverage rainflies, dual-doors, and continuous zippers. The factory had replaced the screens once and a pole, we paid some small amount to replace the screen windows around 1999 and got a free pole replacement maybe in 2007 from a desert 55 mph sandstorm. From buying these things in San Diego since 1978, it's a sure thing that the high-end tents were cheaper in the long run than the Coleman, Wenzel, Eureka!, and Famous Trails l tents we have use, worn out, and sometimes quickly returned after learning why these things are cheap. We see deals for 20-30% off at stores like Sport Chalet or REI out west using member discounts, vendor specials, and end-of-season clearance sales, but nothing compares for us to ebay. Being a chemist by trade and not a "professional shopper", it was a downer to lose some of the auctions, but persistence paid off. The money we saved buying closeout models (with lifetime guarantees) new-at-auction left $ available for things like down sleeping bags, more Model 288 gas lanterns, soft chuck boxes and other such camping necessities. I had fun with the searching and auctions, it's like a "treasure hunt", and the "payoff" was top-shelf quality, materials, and lifetime guarantees with the latest features. I think there are still deals out there, but then folks do seem to WANT EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW and patience seems to be a dying art...I think the best way for "new" campers to get started is still with an inexpensive tent from a big-box retailer or Costco that will give a few seasons of use. When I got into backpacking as a kid, that's what I did and it was a grand time. I've shared countless campouts with friends and family and never advise them to buy the quality of gear we use, as in our case it's the only way to go for real value. I think it would be ridiculous to buy a $400 or $500 tent and realize that it's hardly ever used - sleeping outdoors in the cold with bugs and critters are a way of life where I was raised, but it's not for everybody. A $100 tent would be appropriate for what a lot of people call "camping" anyway...

[toedtoes]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

A65hoosier, you might be right, maybe the deals are gone on Ebay, we haven't bought tents at their auctions (don't need 'em) since 2010.

So, you're basing all your statements that eBay is the best place to buy tents (and there are a lot of them) on purchases done four years ago or longer. You do realize that 4 years is a long time in the world of retail and eBay sellers have changed a lot since then.

I think there are still deals out there, but then folks do seem to WANT EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW and patience seems to be a dying art...

But for most people it's not a matter of lacking patience. It's a matter of time matters. Most people don't have a need to look at buying tents until the idea of camping turns into an decision to go camping. This decision is usually based on a set vacation time, an established date to go with friends or a group, etc. Rarely does a person think "gee camping sounds fun, let me go hunt down a great deal on a tent and other supplies, then I'll set a date to go camp".

I think the best way for "new" campers to get started is still with an inexpensive tent from a big-box retailer or Costco that will give a few seasons of use. When I got into backpacking as a kid, that's what I did and it was a grand time. I've shared countless campouts with friends and family and never advise them to buy the quality of gear we use, as in our case it's the only way to go for real value.

And yet you repeatedly post on this board that folks should only buy high quality expensive tents. You repeatedly make very negative comments about inexpensive tents to the point of scaring newcomers off buying those inexpensive tents.

I think it would be ridiculous to buy a $400 or $500 tent and realize that it's hardly ever used - sleeping outdoors in the cold with bugs and critters are a way of life where I was raised, but it's not for everybody. A $100 tent would be appropriate for what a lot of people call "camping" anyway...

I'm not sure what your point is with this comment other than to insult everyone else because you deem them to not be up to your standards. I've done backpacking with no tent, tent camping, car camping, RV camping. Other than how we got to where we were camping and what I slept in, they really weren't any different. They all included bugs and critters and sleeping outdoors (with the exception of the RV). None included microwaves, hair dryers, TVs, video games, etc. I don't see any one being more worthy of the term "camping" than the other.

[tplife]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

Thanks Toedtoes. We've bought a ton of stuff for our cars, Harley, laptops and accessories over the last four years (just not a tent lately) and Ebay is unbeatable (amazon without the sales taxes) from our family's experience. Maybe where others live and shop prices are a lot different than here in SoCal...The price we pay I guess for 365-day-year sunny weather. My personal examples in buying tents are only to point out that it's very possible to buy high-quality tents for only a little more money than the basic models - provided one has done a little research and is willing to give it a try. Everyone of us on this board has something to contribute of value that benefits their fellow campers, and we certainly appreciate your tips too!

[toedtoes]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

I'm not saying eBay isn't a great place to shop. But if you haven't shopped for a tent on eBay in over 4 years, then it's not really fair to say that people are just "too impatient", "lazy", etc. when they can't get the same great deals that you found.

Also, something else to remember, when you bought your tents at great prices on eBay, you already had camping gear to tide you over until you found that great deal. The folks asking about tents here are new to camping. They don't have any gear yet. So if they take your advice and wait for that great deal on a high quality tent via eBay, they can't go camping until that deal comes along. How long do they wait to go camping? 3 months? 6 months? 2 years?

I completely understand your logic in getting a better quality item for the same money. It's something I do a lot with my camera gear. But, when you don't have any gear at all, it is usually better to get something now so you can get out doing your thing rather than waiting indefinitely for that great deal to come along. Once you've got something that gets you out there, then you can start looking for those great deals and taking your time with it.

[tplife]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

Then why not just go to Costco and buy a tent, unconditional money back guarantee and unlimited returns...that should leave a ton of time for research and auctions for even the busiest outdoorsman. (Just unpacking a Falcon Defender 2000 motorcycle cover for the Road King fresh from Ebay, another sweet deal online.)

[toedtoes]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

Like I said, go to Costco and buy a tent, unconditional money back guarantee and unlimited returns...sheesh!

Not sure when that was suggested by you, but that's not a bad idea for new-to-camping folks.

[median]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

I feel compelled to chime in here (since I live in San Diego, am new to doing my own camping, and don't currently have gear).

1. I won't shop at Cosco b/c all they have is crap Coleman (not interested!)
2. I would rather shop online and have them ship it to my house (saves time)
3. I could find deals on Craigslist if need be (but I don't know what to look for)
4. Ebay (or should I say FEEbay) stinks and I really don't want to shop there and spend hours, days, months trying to hunt down a "smokin deal" (let alone support them anymore given their rate hikes on sellers). If I find a 'dang good' deal somewhere else online I would much rather do that (saves time, less hassle, happier me).

I very much tend to agree with the others on here regarding time. You can't get time back! I grew up with an uncle who spent exorbitant (and extremely annoying) amounts of time trying to always get the "smokin" deal. But nine times out of ten you get what you pay for (and he certainly did!). My uncle actually taught me what not to do - that is not to waste tons of time just to save a meager amount (i.e. - given the mathematics and since time is money). He would spend days solely focused on "the deal" (an addiction maybe?) instead of focusing on getting just a good deal and getting to the point of the purchase (to have fun!). It was like some sort of "Black Friday Syndrome". He could have been out making money with all that time he spent trying to nickle and dime everyone. My whole family (not wealthy by any means) always felt like he had a poor man's mentality.

Anyways, that's my two cents. I want a few good sites that have good prices (and maybe sometimes great prices) on new/used gear that lasts. Fair for fair

[Dixie Dog]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

I have several tents, some are good, some are not, you don't have to spend hundreds for one that works nice.
We have an old 5 man nylon tent that has toughed severe rain and snow. We used it for 15 years.
If you can pitch camp under trees or a cliff is best. I have camped in caves and mine shafts.

[drake2]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

I just ordered the Big Agnes Big House 6 for $220; the footprint was $30; and the matching vestibule was around $75. Anyone ever camped in the big house 6?

[tplife]

Re: Looking for advice on a tent

I'm proud as punch to see that my careful shopping impresses you so well as to be incredulous! I've bought 3 Sierra Designs tents new-with-tags off Ebay at 60% off MSRP. The manufacturer eliminates models periodically and are sold online. I've done as well with Marmot sleeping bags and a few other high-end camping items. If Ebay or other online retailers are selling good gear differently, it only means the gear has moved elsewhere. My '80s Sierra Designs was a model closeout bought at Sport Chalet in '88 but shows the quality you can buy off Ebay, as Sierra Deisgns is a high-production company that owns many of the patents that keep you warm, dry, and out of the wind. No wonder so many other companies pay them royalties to use those features. I shop for the highest quality at the lowest price, and I'm willing to research and study, plan and follow to do it. The rewards more than outpace my time, as the gear far outlasts anything else out there.