Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

[Mike]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

Wow! Nine pages and counting debating which tent to buy. These "Which Tent Do I Buy?" threads are endless in quantity, but folks just love pontificating and debating the subject. Tastes Great vs. Less Filling.

[kwanbis]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

What happened to that budget? lol :blowingup:

Well, originally I have defined 330 tops. That is why I wanted 3 2/3 person tents at 110 each. But as the members keep explaining the reasoning, budgets increase sadly. Obviously I did not include the import taxes and such on the budget.

Wow! Nine pages and counting debating which tent to buy. These "Which Tent Do I Buy?" threads are endless in quantity, but folks just love pontificating and debating the subject. Tastes Great vs. Less Filling.

For me it has been a very good learning experience. "WTDIB" threads exists because people like me, with 0 knowledge, want to be helped, and some users help while others do not.

[a65hoosier]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

Well, originally I have defined 330 tops. That is why I wanted 3 2/3 person tents at 110 each. But as the members keep explaining the reasoning, budgets increase sadly. Obviously I did not include the import taxes and such on the budget.


For me it has been a very good learning experience. "WTDIB" threads exists because people like me, with 0 knowledge, want to be helped, and some users help while others do not.

No offense meant by my budget tease. I too, have upped my budget after digging in, learning, and getting a handle on what I want. Many times, the difference isn't much in the grand scheme of things.

This thread has some lasting information about tent construction with excellent explanations of tent materials, specs...you name it....that any new-to-be tent camper would find very beneficial. A lot of good advice and knowledge shared by the forum Good Stuff!

Also, you cannot go wrong with the tent recommendations and advice of hwc1954. Excellent tents all...you should stay dry. The 4 2/3 man tent configuration will give you more set-up options on the campsite, more personal privacy, and better sleeping arrangements no matter who is going on a particular trip.

[kwanbis]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

No offense meant by my budget tease. I too, have upped my budget after digging in, learning, and getting a handle on what I want. Many times, the difference isn't much in the grand scheme of things.

No way I was offended, don't take my response as an offense either

This thread has some lasting information about tent construction with excellent explanations of tent materials, specs...you name it....that any new-to-be tent camper would find very beneficial. A lot of good advice and knowledge shared by the forum Good Stuff!

Yeah, some explanations are wonderful. We should take that information and make a "how to measure the quality of a tent" or something like that.

Also, you cannot go wrong with the tent recommendations and advice of hwc1954. Excellent tents all...you should stay dry. The 4 2/3 man tent configuration will give you more set-up options on the campsite, more personal privacy, and better sleeping arrangements no matter who is going on a particular trip.

Yeah, at first I started with big tent options because I thought that would be best, but after some explanation by all the members that chimed in I was convinced that individual tents are much better.

Thank all, once more, for all the help.

[hwc1954]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

Yeah, at first I started with big tent options because I thought that would be best, but after some explanation by all the members that chimed in I was convinced that individual tents are much better.

It seems that people often start at one of two extremes -- either a gigantic poor quality "family tent" because that's what is in the big stores or a tent that is too small, believing that a 2-person backpacking tent can actually sleep two people!

I can understand the appeal of the big family tents for parents and kids, but for a bunch of guys? Not so much....

I think you were really smart to think through your options. You'll end up making a better purchase.

I'm busy getting organized for another backpacking overnight tomorrow. Trying out a new lightweight tent that I will carry on my back for three miles.

[kwanbis]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

It seems that people often start at one of two extremes -- either a gigantic poor quality "family tent" because that's what is in the big stores or a tent that is too small, believing that a 2-person backpacking tent can actually sleep two people! I can understand the appeal of the big family tents for parents and kids, but for a bunch of guys? Not so much....

Yeah, exactly my thoughts after reading all the comments.

I think you were really smart to think through your options. You'll end up making a better purchase.

Thanks! I like to do a lot of research before I do any big enough purchase.

I'm busy getting organized for another backpacking overnight tomorrow. Trying out a new lightweight tent that I will carry on my back for three miles.

Have a great adventure!

[kwanbis]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

While waiting for my credit card to go down a little bit, I took hwc1954 comments and tried to make them into a guide, so it is like this:

THINGS TO LOOK FOR ON A GOOD ENOUGH TENT:

Seam Sealed: to keep water from leaking in where seams are sewn. Factory seam sealing (with waterproof tape) is now standard on any halfway decent tent.

Waterproofness: how tall a column of water (in mm) can be applied to a stretched piece of the fabric before water drips through the material. This is important because you are putting pressure on, for example, the floor of a tent when you walk or kneel on it. The minimum rating that is considered waterproof for a tent fabric is 1000mm and that is very marginal. It would only be waterproof when brand new. Quality tents have floor fabrics that are rated between 1500 (very light backpacking tents and 5000 (heavy duty winter tents).

Condensation: The whole idea of a separate rain fly to do deal with condensation. With people breathing in a tent, a tremendous amount of moisture condenses on the walls of the tent. In the old days, if your sleeping bag touched a tent wall, it got wet. Double wall tents have an inner tent that is not water proof (except the floor) and breathable. The rainfly covers the tent with an air gap of several inches. The rain fly is waterproof and moisture condenses on the inside of the rain fly where it can run down to the ground, not dripping on you.

Poles: ??? > Aluminum > Fiberglass > ???.

I don't know if there is a minimum diameter on the aluminum poles that I should consider, or some other materials that are better than aluminum or worst than fiberglass.

Finally, using your guide, it looks like the Mountainsmith Equinox 4 is a great tent?

http://www.rei.com/product/848223/mo...l-buy#specsTab

Pole material: Aluminum
Pole diameter: 9 millimeters
Canopy fabric: 68d x 185t Poly Breathable F/R
Floor fabric: 75d x 190t Poly PU5000mm W/R, F/R
Rainfly fabric: 68d x 185t Poly PU2000mm W/R, F/R

I can not "see" where it says if it is seam sealed or not, and if it is double wall or not. How can I know? Is it where it says "Poly Breathable F/R"?

What is W/R, F/R and how is it different from F/R alone?

And finally, what does Floor fabric: 75d x 190t Poly PU5000mm W/R, F/R mean?

By the way, I'm asking because I've been offered the Mountainsmith Equinox por $120 new.

THANKS!

[hwc1954]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

Poly means polyester fabric. Tents these days are made with polyester or nylon. Both are good materials for tents, with some advantages and disadvantages, one to another.

Yes, breathable refers to the inner tent which is not coated with a waterproof PU (polyurethane) coating. So, inner tent with waterproof rainfly is a double-wall tent.

W/R is short for water resistant. F/R is short for fire resistant, although to be honest, I would keep flames away from ANY of these tents.

The "d" is denier. The weight of a thousand feet (or some large number) of the thread in the fabric. A larger number is a heavier thread (good for durability, bad for weight). The "t" is the number of threads per inch of fabric.

Those are very typical numbers for polyester fabrics in high quality tents. Nylon is a bit more tear resistant, so you will see 40d nylon fabrics in lightweight backpacking tents (for a lot more money). Lighter weight, but nylon stretches and sags when wet (so it doesn't pitch as taut as polyester) and it is less durable in U/V sunlight exposure. There are some ultralight 20d nylon fabrics showing up in ultralight down jackets, sleeping bags, and tents. I don't think 20d nylon is going to be very durable in tents. I have a 10 ounce down hoody made from the stuff. It's so thin you can see thru the fabric.

---------------

The Equinox 4 tent looks like a good solid tent. Good materials, classic design. The only caveat is that they are shooting for light weight. 9mm poles are on the thin side for tent that large, so if you want to to handle some wind, you'll want to set up and use the extra guy lines for more support -- really, a good idea for any tent. The 9mm pole is typical for backpacking tents.

[tplife]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

Square & Fair, Marmot is the only one on your list that's considered "high end'. I say go for quality vs. price. If you don't get your $$$ money out of it, others will upon resale...Just an "old tent geezer's" experience here, nothing to see, move on!

[kwanbis]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

The Equinox 4 tent looks like a good solid tent. Good materials, classic design. The only caveat is that they are shooting for light weight. 9mm poles are on the thin side for tent that large, so if you want to to handle some wind, you'll want to set up and use the extra guy lines for more support -- really, a good idea for any tent. The 9mm pole is typical for backpacking tents.

Thanks hwc for your comments/help. By the way, what would be a more "normal" diameter? 10mm? 11mm? Thanks.

[hwc1954]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

9mm aluminum poles are at the low end of "normal". The upper end of "normal" for a larger 4-6 person tent would be 11 or 12 mm poles. It just depends if the particular model is aimed at low weight (backpacking) or maximum strength (car camping).

For example, Marmot has three 4-person tents in their current line. The Limelight 4P uses 9.5mm aluminum poles. The Halo 4P and Limestone 4P use 12mm aluminum poles.

Their smaller 2-person tents use anywhere from 8.5 to 9.5 mm poles, smaller for the ultralight backpacking tents, beefier for the 4-season tents.

There's no right or wrong answer. Everything is a tradeoff between one thing or another. For example, you can build a perfectly strong tent with fiberglass poles. It's just going to weigh a ton compared to the same strength from aluminum poles.

[kwanbis]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

Thanks once more.

[tplife]

Re: Total Newbie: Want to go out with 3 other friends. What tent should I buy?

hwc's advice is right-on. Although there are 12mm fiberglas poles that are almost indestructible (helicopter-blade technology) as on our old Sierra Designs Base Camp 4. Then again, these are high-end tents and high-tech goes without saying.